"Most ancient writers considered slavery not only natural but necessary, but some isolated debate began to appear, notably in Socratic dialogues while the Stoics produced the first condemnation of slavery recorded in history."
"Consult 'The God Delusion'. There is no doubt that Dawkins considers a lack of belief in God to lead to a desire to end that belief. That’s a logical move that is in fact neither certain nor inevitable, which I see you have not bothered to dispute."
Again, Freddie, you point but do not provide any substance as to what you say Dawkins is saying. I read "God Delusion" when it was published and I do not recall anything in there that remotely supports your original assertion equating atheism with religion as to dogma or "theology."
I think you are avoiding my questions. As I said above, the video link you provided did not answer the questions I asked.
I just viewed the video with Harris and Maher, I had seen it before. I really don't see how anything Harris said supports your view. He says early on that atheism has "no content." So where does Harris put forth any
"duties and responsibilities?"
"But there is an elementary consonance between evangelist religion and evangelist antitheism that I find inarguable, that both insist that their adherents have duties and responsibilities that are a product of their theological stance."
As you say just prior to the quote above you find such thinking lazy, yet you engage in said thinking without offering one quote from Dawkins or any of the so called "new atheists" to backup your assertion they are imposing? suggesting? "duties and responsibilities" on their congregations. Where is the Atheist Bible, or the Atheist Catechism, what is it that we atheists are to take on faith? What is our "theology"?
I'm surprised that you parrot this meme. It is common to read such criticism coming from the right and the religious. It's silly when they assert it, it's sad when you assert it.
"Trade originated with the start of communication in prehistoric times. Trading was the main facility of prehistoric people, who bartered goods and services from each other before the innovation of the modern day currency. Peter Watson dates the history of long-distance commerce from circa 150,000 years ago."
zic, your link to the tomato grower in Maine was very interesting, I would like to taste one of those "Backyard Beauties." The recipe linked sounds good, I'm going to try it soon. Applying heat to the most tasteless "fresh" tomato makes it palatable.
There is one aspect of the Vietnam/Afghanistan comparison that merits contemplation. Both had/have central governments unable to muster allegiance in the hinterlands.
"And as much as I dislike the President’s views on any number of issues, he has my complete trust that he will ignore the law and do what is right when the situation calls for it…and I am completely okay with that.
Well we all know, because Nixon and Rice tell us, that when the president does it it is not illegal.
“By definition, if it was authorized by the president, it did not violate our obligations under the Conventions Against Torture,” Ms. Rice said, almost quoting Nixon’s logic: “When the president does it, that means that it is not illegal.”
"Until we can get to that point, any policy people on the right are somewhat limited to saying 'Markets will do better!' and 'Cut taxes!' (unless, of course, we’re talking foreign policy.)"
"Perhaps there is some tough criticism coming from the Left...."
Well that is a healthy move away from your we can "all agree" stance above.
There is a lot of left leaning bitching without the "buts" and "give him time" excuse, epically on the gay issues. And I say shame on Barny Frank for making excuses for Obama's inaction.
Carter's silliness did not evoke a lot of comment here, but I believe it was greginak that asked Carter what left leaning media he read. I would ask you the same. If you really think Stewart is the only lefty holding Obama accountable you need to get out a bit more.
"I think we can all agree that the Left does not believe that the President has reached that point of accountability on any of his campaign promises (Guantanamo, global warming, jobs, Don’t Ask Don’t Tell)."
No, I don't think we can "all agree."
Much of the Left is vociferous in demanding that Obama be held accountable for his campaign promises. Joe Carter made the same mistake here a few day ago, creating a so called cult of personality around Obama. He clearly was mistaken, just as you.
On “A- still does not imply Anti-”
There is a salutary side to Friddie's meltdown - somewhere Helen Rittelmeyer is smiling.
"
Those Greeks may have had some different ideas regarding traditional marriage, getting some on the side. I'll check Wiki and let you know.
"
"Most ancient writers considered slavery not only natural but necessary, but some isolated debate began to appear, notably in Socratic dialogues while the Stoics produced the first condemnation of slavery recorded in history."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_ancient_Greece
"
"Consult 'The God Delusion'. There is no doubt that Dawkins considers a lack of belief in God to lead to a desire to end that belief. That’s a logical move that is in fact neither certain nor inevitable, which I see you have not bothered to dispute."
Again, Freddie, you point but do not provide any substance as to what you say Dawkins is saying. I read "God Delusion" when it was published and I do not recall anything in there that remotely supports your original assertion equating atheism with religion as to dogma or "theology."
I think you are avoiding my questions. As I said above, the video link you provided did not answer the questions I asked.
"
Am I being coy by sending a link to the definition of coy?
http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/coy
"
I just viewed the video with Harris and Maher, I had seen it before. I really don't see how anything Harris said supports your view. He says early on that atheism has "no content." So where does Harris put forth any
"duties and responsibilities?"
"
"...as natural and inevitable...."
I really doubt that any atheist, and certainly not Dawkins, would agree with "natural" and "inevitable."
Dawkins and evolution reject any sort of design or designer. Perhaps the only thing Dawkins would agree is invitable is change.
"
"But there is an elementary consonance between evangelist religion and evangelist antitheism that I find inarguable, that both insist that their adherents have duties and responsibilities that are a product of their theological stance."
As you say just prior to the quote above you find such thinking lazy, yet you engage in said thinking without offering one quote from Dawkins or any of the so called "new atheists" to backup your assertion they are imposing? suggesting? "duties and responsibilities" on their congregations. Where is the Atheist Bible, or the Atheist Catechism, what is it that we atheists are to take on faith? What is our "theology"?
I'm surprised that you parrot this meme. It is common to read such criticism coming from the right and the religious. It's silly when they assert it, it's sad when you assert it.
"
"...but give us back our word."
WTF? As best I can tell "atheist" is still acceptable, even preferable.
Mountain -- molehill.
On “How to Sell a Tax Increase”
"I would be fascinated to watch conservative heads explode as they tried to explain how Democrats are the fiscally irresponsible party."
Yes yes yes, in 3-D and slow-motion, on a loop.
But here's the thing, cutting defense, is communist - I'm pretty sure.
"
Cut taxes, income, sales, whatever, and people will soon notice what taxes pay for. It might be a lesson well worth teaching.
On “Big is beautiful (and inevitable)”
Localism seems very much a myth.
"Trade originated with the start of communication in prehistoric times. Trading was the main facility of prehistoric people, who bartered goods and services from each other before the innovation of the modern day currency. Peter Watson dates the history of long-distance commerce from circa 150,000 years ago."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade
"
zic, your link to the tomato grower in Maine was very interesting, I would like to taste one of those "Backyard Beauties." The recipe linked sounds good, I'm going to try it soon. Applying heat to the most tasteless "fresh" tomato makes it palatable.
http://www.boston.com/ae/food/articles/2007/03/28/baked_chicken_legs_with_tomatoes/
On “Governments Matter: Afghanistan Edition”
There is one aspect of the Vietnam/Afghanistan comparison that merits contemplation. Both had/have central governments unable to muster allegiance in the hinterlands.
On “Big is beautiful (and inevitable)”
No snark, Will's post was a shot across your bow, how could you not respond? Looking forward to reading it.
"
Undetermined.
"
I'm very worried. I'm agreeing with you way too often.
On “Endless Divisions”
"And as much as I dislike the President’s views on any number of issues, he has my complete trust that he will ignore the law and do what is right when the situation calls for it…and I am completely okay with that.
Well we all know, because Nixon and Rice tell us, that when the president does it it is not illegal.
“By definition, if it was authorized by the president, it did not violate our obligations under the Conventions Against Torture,” Ms. Rice said, almost quoting Nixon’s logic: “When the president does it, that means that it is not illegal.”
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2009/5/3/13421/72811
"
"Until we can get to that point, any policy people on the right are somewhat limited to saying 'Markets will do better!' and 'Cut taxes!' (unless, of course, we’re talking foreign policy.)"
Channeling Mike Farmer?
On “the genuine shame of Ross Douthat’s New York Times column”
"Perhaps there is some tough criticism coming from the Left...."
Well that is a healthy move away from your we can "all agree" stance above.
There is a lot of left leaning bitching without the "buts" and "give him time" excuse, epically on the gay issues. And I say shame on Barny Frank for making excuses for Obama's inaction.
"
Carter's silliness did not evoke a lot of comment here, but I believe it was greginak that asked Carter what left leaning media he read. I would ask you the same. If you really think Stewart is the only lefty holding Obama accountable you need to get out a bit more.
"
"I think we can all agree that the Left does not believe that the President has reached that point of accountability on any of his campaign promises (Guantanamo, global warming, jobs, Don’t Ask Don’t Tell)."
No, I don't think we can "all agree."
Much of the Left is vociferous in demanding that Obama be held accountable for his campaign promises. Joe Carter made the same mistake here a few day ago, creating a so called cult of personality around Obama. He clearly was mistaken, just as you.
"
"...where the hell that Ross Douthat has gone."
I'm fast approaching Douthat as I approach Friedman, skip his BS.
Ah, but Freddie, a must read.
On “war games”
Oh, I agree, he will be remembered for his domestic policies, just not mythologized.
"
To repeat myself and *you*
“Certainly Reagan will be remembered for his domestic reforms – even mythologized for them.”
*Comment archive for non-registered commenters assembled by email address as provided.