but I fear he especially sees the best in the least popular,
Do you remember that crazy justification of McCain he wrote at TAS after the racist campaign ad (linking blacks and welfare came out) and Manzi said....."McCain/Palin, the gift that keeps on giving?"
Reihan has too much empathy.
One should not have empathy for the stupid and the evil.
Sympathy for the devil.
Before my conversion I pretty much swallowed the neocon propaganda that Muhammed is the Great Satan and the cartoon version of jihaadi/fundie islam that frothers like Malkin and Robert Spencer rant about. Like a lot of people my age I became curious about Islam after 9/11. I took an arabic class in school (I love all languages) and I think that cracked my head open enough for memetic penetration.
I tend to have a grateful cohort of muslim peers that welcome me as a sister. I'm not sure how my experiences are different...it would totally depend on what part of islamic culture you were raised in. I was raised Catholic, and kicked out of Catholic school for unauthorized extra curricular reading, so actually I find Sufism far more open to science, technology, and philosophy than either catholicism or evangelical protestantism.
Yup, O is actually speaking to two very different audiences at the same time.
Incredible skill.
I don't get the reluctance of bloggers to give to Shi'ia Islam in the Green Wave. Note Obama used MLK's justice quote. The Green Wave and MLK's civil rights movement are highly isomorphic...both religious non-violent protest movements. Only the Green Wave is all about Shi'ia Islam, while MLK used Christianity.
Ahh...but you should have read my intentionalism and signalling from the comparison to the Whigs. I was talking about the current instantiation of conservatism.
Let me craft analogy for you...
Do you know vamphyres?
They can't come into your house unless they are invited. But once they are in, they are extremely hard to get rid of.
After a while, everyone in the house has to become a vamphyre, and the vamphyres begin to think they own the house. The only remedy is to run the vamphyres down and stake them in the heart. Conor is trying to this.
But I think the vamphyrization of the GOP is too extensive.
Your only viable strategy is to burn down the house.
I think the House of Vamphyres is already on fire.
Let it burn.
E.D. You are restating what I said about the biological persistance of affilition in populations. I meant, what is it about this instantiation of conservatism, ie the GOP, that is worth preserving?
Why shouldn't it go extinct like the Whigs, and the core memes respawn in a different conservative vector?
I just watched the presser.
Obama said justice at least 5x and didn't say "democracy" a single time.
Even if E.D. and Will are confuzzled, our president isn't.
That guy is laser-guided.
The douchey press core got served.
I dig the new gangstah Obama.
;)
hai Scotty.
Do you actually the rightside fundies want the Green Wave to fail?
Or are they honestly clueless about how disastrous their advice would be if Obama followed it?
I see a somewhat deliberate attempt to ignore the influence of Shi'ia Islam on the greens. The Shi'ia are tough and practiced at civil disobedience, having survived the Umayydd Caliphate after the martyrdom of Imam Ali. Neda is becoming a martyr symbol to rally around. Religious non-violent protest was MLK's theme, and the the theme of the revolutionaries that overthrew the tyrant Shah. Indeed, the citizens are using the same techniques like non-violent marching and chanting Allahu Akbar.
/gapes in shock at Bob Cheeks
"If we cede power to the statists, again, same old sh*t. If we seize power we get a republic, or the effort to restore the republic, which because the U.S. is a socialist people’s democracy will fail."
But you have NEVAH done that.....not ever when you had the power. Republicans always grew govenment while lipservicing limited government, and have continuously agitated for growing government with laws intruding into peoples bedrooms!
I don't feel it, sry.
There is always the cost-viabilty question. The negative results of the Grand Misadventure of the Manifest Destiny of Judeoxian democracy in MENA far outweighed any benefits accrued from bullying Libya and Syria.
Let me count the ways....
1. Destroyed our credibility as democracy promotors by attempting to force democracy.
2. Cost 1 trillion taxpayer dollars and 4228 AMERICAN soldier's lives and around a cool million Iraqi citizen lives.
3. Gave the local tyrants a cool propaganda opportunity to keep their boots on their populations throats.
4. Played right back into Operation Ajax fearmongering, were the US was, indisputably, guilty as sin.
5. Made a recruitment tool for Al-Qaeda.
6. Debased our national character with torture.
I could go on....but I don't need to, do I?
I think...that homosapiens sapiens comes in two basic flavors, conservative and liberal. Sure, you can have different sprinkles or cookie crumbs or w/e...but the basics are the same. The conservative problem right now is that they have gone fundamentalist.
Pascal Boyer-- (Religion Explained)
Fundamentalism ....is an attempt to preserve a particular kind of hierarchy based on coalition, when this is threatened by the perception of cheap and therefore likely defection.
Another typical tactic of fundamentalism is to burn the middle ground, to force moderates into the extremist camp. Also fundamentalists feel threatened by memetic dilution, so they enforce message purity......"conservative values".
Still, if the GOP dies, a new party will arise to fill the needs of the conservative half of America, just like when the Whigs died out.
We will always have a two party system, E.D. .....we are hard-wired for it.
"That’s something that dissident conservatives and mainstreamers should both be afraid of."
Why? What if the conservative movement is just over, like the Whigs?
If their memes are not competitve, and they can offer no platform except for hatin' on Obama, why shouldn't they go extinct?
Failure to evolve.
Well..you guyz know I dig teh empirical data. Like this guy says....
"OK, let me see if I've got this right. Since Barack Obama has taken the presidential oath of office we have witnessed: a) Hezbollah lose a shoo-in election in Lebanon, b) Pakistan begin serious efforts to control the Taliban and al Qaeda elements inside its borders, c) Netanyahu of Israel mumble support about a two state solution and rethink settlements and, d) A major awakening of the Iranian citizenry against the heavy-handedness of the mullahs. What hasn't changed? The simple-minded thuggery of the Right when it comes to foreign policy (and Grover Norquist, someone should gently remind him that it's 2009, not 1989). They have long preferred a modified Teddy Roosevelt approach. Speak loudly and wail away with the biggest stick you can find. I don't know if all this is the results of one speech in Cairo by the President but if it is I hope he gives a second, and soon," - Carl Owen, Politico.
And the truth is also, Bush is STILL universally loathed and despised in MENA. We had zero credibilty as promotors of "democracy" because we tried to impose it by force.
E.D......would you have bet on MLK?
This is just the same.
A civil rights movement defined by religious non-violent protest.
Only the religion is al-Islam, and not christianity.
And here is the truthsay about neocon philosophy. They have bet the bank on the clash of civilizations. Their warped vision of the Iranian situ is freedom lovin' peoples (just like them) rising up to overturn the mullahs. A cartoon rendering of a complex and ancient problem. The axis of idiots--Steyn, VDH, Malkin, Daniel "crack" Pipes, Robert Spencer have promoted their own version of Islam with Muhammed as the Great Satan. They are joined by the Eurabia Frothers like Spengler/Goldman, who thinkfully have finally been proven to be idiots with actual demographic data.
Upper right-tailers like Krauthammer don't actually believe their own schtick....it is just a gypsyhook to pull the left half of the bellcurve into their tent, like "life", SSM, taxes, etc.
Make no mistake, the neocons are wholly invested in portraying Islam as the ultimate evil. The war on terror really WAS a war on al-Islam. That is why Obama speaking to dar al harb drives them into a frenzy.
here goes my lunch hour.
E.D. you and Larison are simply wrong. The reform movement will succeed eventually. The Shi'ia have a long history of civil disobediance. They would never have survived the Umayydd Caliphate if they didn't, after Imam Ali was martyred. The Greens are using the same techniques that the Islamic revolutionaries used to overthrow the tyrant Shah. And they have a greater weapon than any available to the 1979 revolutionaries. Information.
The images of Neda Soltani lying in her chadoor and a pool of her own blood will be the doom of the regime. 1.5 billion muslims can look at the pictures and say, my wife, my daughter, my sister. She was devout....she covered. Khameini cant paint her as a troublemaking westernized harlot.
Like Obama said, the world is watching.
*Comment archive for non-registered commenters assembled by email address as provided.
On “good intentions”
but I fear he especially sees the best in the least popular,
Do you remember that crazy justification of McCain he wrote at TAS after the racist campaign ad (linking blacks and welfare came out) and Manzi said....."McCain/Palin, the gift that keeps on giving?"
Reihan has too much empathy.
One should not have empathy for the stupid and the evil.
Sympathy for the devil.
On “Symmetrical Idiocy”
This phenomenom is well understood by cognitive anthropologists. It is called fundamentalism.
"
and....I am a desert warrior...I am one with the spirit of the na'qaat, the female combat poets, the first meme warriors.
"
Issa (Jesus) was dearly beloved of my primary shayyk, Ibn Arabi.
In Sufism your shayyks can be both among the dead and the living.
"
Before my conversion I pretty much swallowed the neocon propaganda that Muhammed is the Great Satan and the cartoon version of jihaadi/fundie islam that frothers like Malkin and Robert Spencer rant about. Like a lot of people my age I became curious about Islam after 9/11. I took an arabic class in school (I love all languages) and I think that cracked my head open enough for memetic penetration.
I tend to have a grateful cohort of muslim peers that welcome me as a sister. I'm not sure how my experiences are different...it would totally depend on what part of islamic culture you were raised in. I was raised Catholic, and kicked out of Catholic school for unauthorized extra curricular reading, so actually I find Sufism far more open to science, technology, and philosophy than either catholicism or evangelical protestantism.
"
give credit to Shi'ia Islam.
"
Yup, O is actually speaking to two very different audiences at the same time.
Incredible skill.
I don't get the reluctance of bloggers to give to Shi'ia Islam in the Green Wave. Note Obama used MLK's justice quote. The Green Wave and MLK's civil rights movement are highly isomorphic...both religious non-violent protest movements. Only the Green Wave is all about Shi'ia Islam, while MLK used Christianity.
On “personae non gratae”
Ahh...but you should have read my intentionalism and signalling from the comparison to the Whigs. I was talking about the current instantiation of conservatism.
Let me craft analogy for you...
Do you know vamphyres?
They can't come into your house unless they are invited. But once they are in, they are extremely hard to get rid of.
After a while, everyone in the house has to become a vamphyre, and the vamphyres begin to think they own the house. The only remedy is to run the vamphyres down and stake them in the heart. Conor is trying to this.
But I think the vamphyrization of the GOP is too extensive.
Your only viable strategy is to burn down the house.
I think the House of Vamphyres is already on fire.
Let it burn.
"
E.D. You are restating what I said about the biological persistance of affilition in populations. I meant, what is it about this instantiation of conservatism, ie the GOP, that is worth preserving?
Why shouldn't it go extinct like the Whigs, and the core memes respawn in a different conservative vector?
On “Symmetrical Idiocy”
I just watched the presser.
Obama said justice at least 5x and didn't say "democracy" a single time.
Even if E.D. and Will are confuzzled, our president isn't.
That guy is laser-guided.
The douchey press core got served.
I dig the new gangstah Obama.
;)
"
hai Scotty.
Do you actually the rightside fundies want the Green Wave to fail?
Or are they honestly clueless about how disastrous their advice would be if Obama followed it?
On “personae non gratae”
I would appreciate an answer to my question, E.D. .......
Exactly what is there in conservatism anymore that is worthy of preservation?
On “Symmetrical Idiocy”
I see a somewhat deliberate attempt to ignore the influence of Shi'ia Islam on the greens. The Shi'ia are tough and practiced at civil disobedience, having survived the Umayydd Caliphate after the martyrdom of Imam Ali. Neda is becoming a martyr symbol to rally around. Religious non-violent protest was MLK's theme, and the the theme of the revolutionaries that overthrew the tyrant Shah. Indeed, the citizens are using the same techniques like non-violent marching and chanting Allahu Akbar.
On “personae non gratae”
/gapes in shock at Bob Cheeks
"If we cede power to the statists, again, same old sh*t. If we seize power we get a republic, or the effort to restore the republic, which because the U.S. is a socialist people’s democracy will fail."
But you have NEVAH done that.....not ever when you had the power. Republicans always grew govenment while lipservicing limited government, and have continuously agitated for growing government with laws intruding into peoples bedrooms!
I don't feel it, sry.
On “freedom and neoconservatism”
There is always the cost-viabilty question. The negative results of the Grand Misadventure of the Manifest Destiny of Judeoxian democracy in MENA far outweighed any benefits accrued from bullying Libya and Syria.
Let me count the ways....
1. Destroyed our credibility as democracy promotors by attempting to force democracy.
2. Cost 1 trillion taxpayer dollars and 4228 AMERICAN soldier's lives and around a cool million Iraqi citizen lives.
3. Gave the local tyrants a cool propaganda opportunity to keep their boots on their populations throats.
4. Played right back into Operation Ajax fearmongering, were the US was, indisputably, guilty as sin.
5. Made a recruitment tool for Al-Qaeda.
6. Debased our national character with torture.
I could go on....but I don't need to, do I?
On “personae non gratae”
I think...that homosapiens sapiens comes in two basic flavors, conservative and liberal. Sure, you can have different sprinkles or cookie crumbs or w/e...but the basics are the same. The conservative problem right now is that they have gone fundamentalist.
Pascal Boyer-- (Religion Explained)
Another typical tactic of fundamentalism is to burn the middle ground, to force moderates into the extremist camp. Also fundamentalists feel threatened by memetic dilution, so they enforce message purity......"conservative values".
Still, if the GOP dies, a new party will arise to fill the needs of the conservative half of America, just like when the Whigs died out.
We will always have a two party system, E.D. .....we are hard-wired for it.
"
"That’s something that dissident conservatives and mainstreamers should both be afraid of."
Why? What if the conservative movement is just over, like the Whigs?
If their memes are not competitve, and they can offer no platform except for hatin' on Obama, why shouldn't they go extinct?
Failure to evolve.
On “freedom and neoconservatism”
Well..you guyz know I dig teh empirical data. Like this guy says....
And the truth is also, Bush is STILL universally loathed and despised in MENA. We had zero credibilty as promotors of "democracy" because we tried to impose it by force.
"
The rigged election is anti-constitutional and illegal.
The islamic republic operates under the rule of law.....the rule of islamic law.
"
Well cya.
lunch ovah.
"
You have to wonder what they make of the fact that the protesters slogan is “Allahu Akbah!”…
I heard one rightwing fundie at Hotair say that was "ironic".
They are capabale of vast confirmational bias.
"
"the Iranians want democracy."
James, no they don't. They want freedom and justice.
GW made democracy a dirty word in MENA.
"
E.D......would you have bet on MLK?
This is just the same.
A civil rights movement defined by religious non-violent protest.
Only the religion is al-Islam, and not christianity.
"
And here is the truthsay about neocon philosophy. They have bet the bank on the clash of civilizations. Their warped vision of the Iranian situ is freedom lovin' peoples (just like them) rising up to overturn the mullahs. A cartoon rendering of a complex and ancient problem. The axis of idiots--Steyn, VDH, Malkin, Daniel "crack" Pipes, Robert Spencer have promoted their own version of Islam with Muhammed as the Great Satan. They are joined by the Eurabia Frothers like Spengler/Goldman, who thinkfully have finally been proven to be idiots with actual demographic data.
Upper right-tailers like Krauthammer don't actually believe their own schtick....it is just a gypsyhook to pull the left half of the bellcurve into their tent, like "life", SSM, taxes, etc.
Make no mistake, the neocons are wholly invested in portraying Islam as the ultimate evil. The war on terror really WAS a war on al-Islam. That is why Obama speaking to dar al harb drives them into a frenzy.
"
here goes my lunch hour.
E.D. you and Larison are simply wrong. The reform movement will succeed eventually. The Shi'ia have a long history of civil disobediance. They would never have survived the Umayydd Caliphate if they didn't, after Imam Ali was martyred. The Greens are using the same techniques that the Islamic revolutionaries used to overthrow the tyrant Shah. And they have a greater weapon than any available to the 1979 revolutionaries. Information.
The images of Neda Soltani lying in her chadoor and a pool of her own blood will be the doom of the regime. 1.5 billion muslims can look at the pictures and say, my wife, my daughter, my sister. She was devout....she covered. Khameini cant paint her as a troublemaking westernized harlot.
Like Obama said, the world is watching.
*Comment archive for non-registered commenters assembled by email address as provided.