At the moment, we're getting more political violence from the Right than the Left. This is a relatively new thing because of Trump's cult.
The next time a city riots, there is a good chance that it will be from a left issue. We're supposed to pretend that the rioters aren't holding law and order hostage.
The whole phrase "Sister Souljah moment" was a thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sister_Souljah_moment
We're supposed to pretend that the rioters and the protesters are two distinct groups with nothing to do with each other AND ALSO that the same thing will happen again if the protesters demands aren't met.
You're forgetting Russia. We've had the resources of a hostile state trying to fund extremism and political/social instability. Everything from internet troll farms to funding politicians.
We know that they've been doing this, we're not sure how much money or impact it's had. My expectation is this is a bigger part in all this than we like to think.
From Russia's point of view, they've been at war with us for more than a decade. They (correctly) view their system as being hostile to ours. For example the basic concepts of clean government and clean elections are serious problems for an authoritarian state.
you’re well on the way of drowning their votes in a sea of newer, better Americans.
You're both wrong. Being an immigrant doesn't mean you can't also be a racist or otherwise deeply opposed to Team Blue.
The "new" people are not "better" than the ones who exist. Sometimes they bring their cultural troubles with them. Always within a couple of generations they'll be us no matter what is true now.
Biden destroyed his campaign last time. That's really rare and impressive. Probably also needed.
I have already decided what I'm voting on, who that means I have to vote for, and why. So assuming we don't have another drop out or a successful assassination, I'm done.
I'll skip the debate and watch the highlights later.
They need fatality rates of (WAG) about 100:1 to convince them.
We're re-fighting the war of 1949 to see what will happen now that Israel is a regional powerhouse.
It is possible that this time, now that we've seen those massively lopsided fatality rates even are present when you expand the scale, maybe things will change. The other thing that needs to happen is Netanyahu needs to get kicked out but I assume next election will do that.
Facts are stubborn things. Not only is Israel "real" but it's a regional power house.
Pretending it's one glorious attack away from being pushed into the sea is how we got the current war.
...is not doing then any favors.
Constant refusal to accept a peace that allows Israel to existence means no set borders. No set borders opens the door to the settlements.
If the settlements become to big to move the Palestinians lose more land.
That's ignoring various short term costs. The effects on trade, jobs, the economies, and even the war.
Although I'm less sure this war is still a "short term" thing. When it's over, Israel is going to try to prevent Hamas from rebuilding. That implies grim things for Gaza's standard of living and so on.
Today the image of the “typical gun owner” is a crazed nutter...
That's the Left's point of view. Others would disagree.
Chip: guy who says “Yes, my gun rights are more important than your kid’s life.”
My zip code's murder rate holds steady at zero. You're asking the law abiding to give up their rights so you can virtue signal convince criminals into following the law.
It would be a lot easier, faster, and more practical to deal directly either with the criminals who do this sort of thing or the media's efforts to encourage it.
One of their big conclusions was... : saturation media coverage provides both instruction and perverse incentives for dysfunctional individuals to imitate previous crimes.
Following the Port Arthur Massacre the gov went seriously into "take everyone's guns". In a population of 24 million with overwhelming support from the population they picked up 640k guns.
That means they were already disarmed by our standards since they had one gun for every 37 people while we have more than one gun per person.
So all you have to do to make this approach successful is to get everyone to be eager to give up their guns to the point where we almost don't have any in the US, then you can pass a law like this to clean up what's left.
Then you'd better hope really hard that rampage killers don't start using other methods that are more effective than guns at doing this sort of thing.
So that's a "no" then? You don't have any examples of Constitutional Rights that aren't Individual Rights?
Chip: 200 years of Constitutional law and jurisprudence.
Not really. The previous case was Miller, decided in 1939. Miller (a bank robber) was either dead or on the run when the case was argued and he didn't present a counter argument to the government. Further both sides of the debate liked to point to Miller.
Far as I can tell, Miller was confused to the point where Heller didn't overrule Miller.
Amazingly, gun rights managed to mostly not end up in front of the Supremes over the last 200 years. No one asked them if the 2ndAM was an individual right before Heller.
The implication is both sides didn't want to hear the answer.
Are there any other core Constitutional rights you'd like to claim aren't individual rights?
Maybe religious freedom means the state can have a church and ban all others? Or maybe freedom of speech means the state is allowed to have an official news source and ban individual speech if we disagree?
Any examples at all of "rights" that really mean "the state can do it and prevent individuals?"
I don't understand how the media works in other countries. Nor do I understand how someone becomes famous for committing heinous deeds.
It is possible that scale matters. It is possible that they don't celebrate their killers for other societal reasons.
However I can say there are lots of ways to commit mass murder that don't involve firearms but they haven't become copycat themes here or there. (No examples please)
We're dealing with people who plan for months or even years. If they had a different blueprint to copy and obsess over the overall body count could easily be a lot worse. Derik and Eric had no budget.
It is reasonable and expected for the Arabs to be butt hurt that Israel exists.
Ditto the Mexicans with the USA taking a third of their land. Ditto the Native Americans with the USA taking all their land. (Almost?) Every country was created by taking the land from someone else.
As a country of immigrants, the USA has less "ethical" claim to being a country than most. The Jews in Israel (and for that matter, the Palestinians) have a greater "ethical" claim to the land than most.
But this line of reasoning is stupid and pointless! Victimhood does not grant moral superiority and competing for "who is the larger victim" shouldn't be a thing.
If Mexico starts destroying cities on our border and/or engaging in terrorism, then we will kill as many as we need to keep our civilians safe. If we need to put their entire country through a woodchipper then that's what happens. That would be expected and even ethical.
We forgive countries the crime of their creation because the alternatives are amazingly ugly.
It is a fact that Israel exists. Refusing to accept that is extremely aggressive and takes that part of the world to ugly places.
This is wishful thinking. Your conclusion is "other people" need to change their lifestyles but "you" do not.
Other countries are awash in guns but absent the media focus they don't have this problem.
For that matter the United States before Columbine had the same culture we do now but we didn't have this problem. The media made Derik and Eric household names. These are his followers.
Turning losers into major celebrities invites other losers to copy that success.
I think what you'd want to have happen is for Georgia to pass a firearm storage law. They toyed with that idea but didn't do it.
Washington has it: https://www.washingtongunlaw.com/safe-firearm-storage
If we're talking about insurance, then school shooting is so rare it basically rounds to zero. Don't expect insurance for it to be big because multiplying something by near zero won't result in a big number.
That's over and above the issue that insurance won't cover crimes which is what we're talking about here.
Philip: We also need to get over the idea that you can buy firearms without demonstrating both competence/training AND proper storage.
Since it's a core constitutional right, I'd think it's on the gov to prove incompetence. Which a lot of states do with "red flag" laws. That also raises the bar for "incompetence" to "likely to kill themselves or others".
Here we have parents either ignoring red flags or actively enabling him to the point of committing crimes despite them.
I'm not sure what we do other than arrest them after the fact. For all your suggestions on how they should behave, if they were willing to do that then we wouldn't be talking about this one.
As for mental health in South Florida, I'm going through that for one of my kids and I've been reasonably pleased with the tools, process, and outcome.
*Comment archive for non-registered commenters assembled by email address as provided.
On “Missing the Forest for the Trees on Springfield”
At the moment, we're getting more political violence from the Right than the Left. This is a relatively new thing because of Trump's cult.
The next time a city riots, there is a good chance that it will be from a left issue. We're supposed to pretend that the rioters aren't holding law and order hostage.
The whole phrase "Sister Souljah moment" was a thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sister_Souljah_moment
We're supposed to pretend that the rioters and the protesters are two distinct groups with nothing to do with each other AND ALSO that the same thing will happen again if the protesters demands aren't met.
"
You're forgetting Russia. We've had the resources of a hostile state trying to fund extremism and political/social instability. Everything from internet troll farms to funding politicians.
We know that they've been doing this, we're not sure how much money or impact it's had. My expectation is this is a bigger part in all this than we like to think.
From Russia's point of view, they've been at war with us for more than a decade. They (correctly) view their system as being hostile to ours. For example the basic concepts of clean government and clean elections are serious problems for an authoritarian state.
On “Open Mic for the week of 9/9/2024”
I think without Trump that bill would have passed. The GOP wrote a lot of it.
"
you’re well on the way of drowning their votes in a sea of newer, better Americans.
You're both wrong. Being an immigrant doesn't mean you can't also be a racist or otherwise deeply opposed to Team Blue.
The "new" people are not "better" than the ones who exist. Sometimes they bring their cultural troubles with them. Always within a couple of generations they'll be us no matter what is true now.
"
They also aren’t going to vote for the VP no matter what she says or doesn’t say.
The VP's solution on this issue is to pass the bill Trump shut down.
That's a winning argument.
The people who oppose immigration by brown and black people are not people I want to coddle.
They vote. Their interests are not unnecessarily opposed to yours.
On “Watch And React Live: The Harris Trump Debate”
The ACA doubled down on the parts of the system that made it expensive. It was insurance reform, not medical reform.
On “Brace Yourselves: The Debate is Coming”
Biden destroyed his campaign last time. That's really rare and impressive. Probably also needed.
I have already decided what I'm voting on, who that means I have to vote for, and why. So assuming we don't have another drop out or a successful assassination, I'm done.
I'll skip the debate and watch the highlights later.
On “Open Mic for the week of 9/9/2024”
Rest in Peace Vader
"
That guy needs to be in prison and is only running to stay out.
On “The Party of the Middle”
Harris didn't go through the primaries, so she didn't need to dance with the fringes.
On “Open Mic for the week of 9/2/2024”
They need fatality rates of (WAG) about 100:1 to convince them.
We're re-fighting the war of 1949 to see what will happen now that Israel is a regional powerhouse.
It is possible that this time, now that we've seen those massively lopsided fatality rates even are present when you expand the scale, maybe things will change. The other thing that needs to happen is Netanyahu needs to get kicked out but I assume next election will do that.
"
RE: Israel is a real country.
Facts are stubborn things. Not only is Israel "real" but it's a regional power house.
Pretending it's one glorious attack away from being pushed into the sea is how we got the current war.
...is not doing then any favors.
Constant refusal to accept a peace that allows Israel to existence means no set borders. No set borders opens the door to the settlements.
If the settlements become to big to move the Palestinians lose more land.
That's ignoring various short term costs. The effects on trade, jobs, the economies, and even the war.
Although I'm less sure this war is still a "short term" thing. When it's over, Israel is going to try to prevent Hamas from rebuilding. That implies grim things for Gaza's standard of living and so on.
"
Yes. "They're attacking us", full stop.
Israel is a real country with all the normal bells and whistles. If we treat them like a normal country then the ethics gets clearer.
On “Apalachee Killer’s Father Now Charged”
Depends on your zip code.
"
Today the image of the “typical gun owner” is a crazed nutter...
That's the Left's point of view. Others would disagree.
Chip: guy who says “Yes, my gun rights are more important than your kid’s life.”
My zip code's murder rate holds steady at zero. You're asking the law abiding to give up their rights so you can virtue signal convince criminals into following the law.
It would be a lot easier, faster, and more practical to deal directly either with the criminals who do this sort of thing or the media's efforts to encourage it.
"
Sure, that's a great example.
One of their big conclusions was... : saturation media coverage provides both instruction and perverse incentives for dysfunctional individuals to imitate previous crimes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthur_massacre_(Australia)#Mental_illness_and_copycat_effects
Following the Port Arthur Massacre the gov went seriously into "take everyone's guns". In a population of 24 million with overwhelming support from the population they picked up 640k guns.
That means they were already disarmed by our standards since they had one gun for every 37 people while we have more than one gun per person.
So all you have to do to make this approach successful is to get everyone to be eager to give up their guns to the point where we almost don't have any in the US, then you can pass a law like this to clean up what's left.
Then you'd better hope really hard that rampage killers don't start using other methods that are more effective than guns at doing this sort of thing.
"
So that's a "no" then? You don't have any examples of Constitutional Rights that aren't Individual Rights?
Chip: 200 years of Constitutional law and jurisprudence.
Not really. The previous case was Miller, decided in 1939. Miller (a bank robber) was either dead or on the run when the case was argued and he didn't present a counter argument to the government. Further both sides of the debate liked to point to Miller.
Far as I can tell, Miller was confused to the point where Heller didn't overrule Miller.
Amazingly, gun rights managed to mostly not end up in front of the Supremes over the last 200 years. No one asked them if the 2ndAM was an individual right before Heller.
The implication is both sides didn't want to hear the answer.
"
Are there any other core Constitutional rights you'd like to claim aren't individual rights?
Maybe religious freedom means the state can have a church and ban all others? Or maybe freedom of speech means the state is allowed to have an official news source and ban individual speech if we disagree?
Any examples at all of "rights" that really mean "the state can do it and prevent individuals?"
"
I don't understand how the media works in other countries. Nor do I understand how someone becomes famous for committing heinous deeds.
It is possible that scale matters. It is possible that they don't celebrate their killers for other societal reasons.
However I can say there are lots of ways to commit mass murder that don't involve firearms but they haven't become copycat themes here or there. (No examples please)
We're dealing with people who plan for months or even years. If they had a different blueprint to copy and obsess over the overall body count could easily be a lot worse. Derik and Eric had no budget.
On “Open Mic for the week of 9/2/2024”
It is reasonable and expected for the Arabs to be butt hurt that Israel exists.
Ditto the Mexicans with the USA taking a third of their land. Ditto the Native Americans with the USA taking all their land. (Almost?) Every country was created by taking the land from someone else.
As a country of immigrants, the USA has less "ethical" claim to being a country than most. The Jews in Israel (and for that matter, the Palestinians) have a greater "ethical" claim to the land than most.
But this line of reasoning is stupid and pointless! Victimhood does not grant moral superiority and competing for "who is the larger victim" shouldn't be a thing.
If Mexico starts destroying cities on our border and/or engaging in terrorism, then we will kill as many as we need to keep our civilians safe. If we need to put their entire country through a woodchipper then that's what happens. That would be expected and even ethical.
We forgive countries the crime of their creation because the alternatives are amazingly ugly.
It is a fact that Israel exists. Refusing to accept that is extremely aggressive and takes that part of the world to ugly places.
On “Apalachee Killer’s Father Now Charged”
This is wishful thinking. Your conclusion is "other people" need to change their lifestyles but "you" do not.
Other countries are awash in guns but absent the media focus they don't have this problem.
For that matter the United States before Columbine had the same culture we do now but we didn't have this problem. The media made Derik and Eric household names. These are his followers.
Turning losers into major celebrities invites other losers to copy that success.
"
It being national news for days is why we have the issue now. These shooters do it for fame. Giving them fame is rewarding what should be punished.
"
I think what you'd want to have happen is for Georgia to pass a firearm storage law. They toyed with that idea but didn't do it.
Washington has it: https://www.washingtongunlaw.com/safe-firearm-storage
If we're talking about insurance, then school shooting is so rare it basically rounds to zero. Don't expect insurance for it to be big because multiplying something by near zero won't result in a big number.
That's over and above the issue that insurance won't cover crimes which is what we're talking about here.
"
Philip: We also need to get over the idea that you can buy firearms without demonstrating both competence/training AND proper storage.
Since it's a core constitutional right, I'd think it's on the gov to prove incompetence. Which a lot of states do with "red flag" laws. That also raises the bar for "incompetence" to "likely to kill themselves or others".
Here we have parents either ignoring red flags or actively enabling him to the point of committing crimes despite them.
I'm not sure what we do other than arrest them after the fact. For all your suggestions on how they should behave, if they were willing to do that then we wouldn't be talking about this one.
"
Not sure if South Florida counts as "south".
As for mental health in South Florida, I'm going through that for one of my kids and I've been reasonably pleased with the tools, process, and outcome.
*Comment archive for non-registered commenters assembled by email address as provided.