Yes, yes. Metaphysics preceeds epistemology but we can only work with the latter and if the latter has no bearing on the former we're shit outta luck anyway.
If, however, we can get there from here then we can start hammering stuff out. Hammering stuff out can look like confusing "how stuff works" with "how we think stuff works" though.
As for my criticisms of your criticisms, it's because I share a handful of your inclinations and feel that you do the positions that you and I share a disservice when you argue for them poorly and defend them even more poorly.
If you wish to attack Obama for being an empty suit, or worse, for being indistinguishable from Dubya when it comes to the things that you care about, it makes more sense to attack him for being an empty suit or for being indistinguishable from Dubya. When you attack him for being a foreigner, I am left wondering if you'd be cool with him doing exactly what he's doing if he were called "Mike Huckabee".
(That's without getting into the "it feels like your goal is to irritate the hosts of the site rather than make a point worth addressing" thing that comes up from time to time.)
Here's what bugs me about certain types of name-calling:
They're body parts. (In this case, they're devices designed to interact with body parts.)
I am reminded of being in elementary school where the height of wit was to grab a friend and run up to some victim and Kid A would yell "Hi, right nut!" and Kid B would yell "Hi, left nut!" leaving the victim to deduce exactly what in the heck was going on.
Now that I think about it, wasn't the victim coming out ahead in that little exchange?
In any case, there are a number of taboos related to body parts and the interactions thereof. Invoking these taboos does a good job of pressing the taboo button on the part of the reader but does not do a particularly good job of transmitting *CONTENT*.
Let's say that your problem with Obama is that he told the military to defend the insurgents in Libya.
Is the word that is just as likely to be used to describe a guy who spills your beer at a campsite really the best you can do?
Because, from here, that tells me volumes about your vocabulary but little about Obama.
So you think he's a water bottle, do you?
Perhaps you could grab a friend and get some walkie-talkies and stand on opposite sides of the White House. "*crzzzt* Left Nut, over." "*crzzzt* Right Nut, over" "*crzzzt* we showed him!"
I think that Bill Maher is an excellent counter-argument to the trite assumption that libertarians are necessarily on the right.
Personally, I think you'd get more traction with "Feh, Maher's not a real libertarian!" than with "Maher is a Libertarian, Libertarians are on the right, QED!!!"
If someone starts screaming about how awful X is on issue Y, and how wicked X is with regards to issue Y, and how they cannot believe how (screwed) up X is when it comes to Y and then, after some light investigation, that X is, in fact, the best on the issue of Y and there is not an example of any other entity out there that is better when it comes to Y?
Is there tension between the American Religion and Islam?
I'm not asking "should it exist" or "are White People racists" or "are you a good person" but if is there a phenomenon of tension between the American Religion and Islam.
If there is tension between the American Religion and Islam, is this tension resolvable?
Does even asking this question demonstrate not only a number of personal shortcomings on my part but calls into question the character of anyone who would even ask such a question?
Back in my Superatheist! days, I went to the occasional Freethinkers (sigh) meeting.
After one of the more depressing ones (the speaker made fun of his grandmother's simple religious faith and expected us to laugh along), I was witnessed to by a Muslim gentleman of Arab extraction. I thought that this was a challenge I had never before contemplated... I was used to slapping around Christians, here was an opportunity to slap around a Muslim!
I began with talking about the five pillars. Charity, the pilgramage, Ramadan, prayer... and when I said what the Muslim affirmation of faith was, the gentleman put his hand into a fist, shook it in my face, and told me to never say the name of his prophet ever again.
On “Weekend Jukebox and Open Thread”
Of all the things to be sorry for, that one would not have occurred to me.
"
Thank you.
"
I just confirmed on the web that I was right and you're wrong.
I'd post a link but... you know.
I'd rather talk about how you're wrong than actually demonstrate anything.
Because it's Saturday.
"
Yes, yes. Metaphysics preceeds epistemology but we can only work with the latter and if the latter has no bearing on the former we're shit outta luck anyway.
If, however, we can get there from here then we can start hammering stuff out. Hammering stuff out can look like confusing "how stuff works" with "how we think stuff works" though.
"
So... I should shut up?
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You know, I keep posting links and people keep ignoring them.
https://ordinary-times.com/blog/2009/07/07/the-vector-a-post-theist-moral-framework/
As for my criticisms of your criticisms, it's because I share a handful of your inclinations and feel that you do the positions that you and I share a disservice when you argue for them poorly and defend them even more poorly.
If you wish to attack Obama for being an empty suit, or worse, for being indistinguishable from Dubya when it comes to the things that you care about, it makes more sense to attack him for being an empty suit or for being indistinguishable from Dubya. When you attack him for being a foreigner, I am left wondering if you'd be cool with him doing exactly what he's doing if he were called "Mike Huckabee".
(That's without getting into the "it feels like your goal is to irritate the hosts of the site rather than make a point worth addressing" thing that comes up from time to time.)
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I don't believe. That doesn't mean that I don't think about it.
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I was familiar with the song (we are a pro-Coulton household) but had not seen that particular video. Thank you!
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When I imagine a person who is connected to Ultimate Truth and God, sometimes I imagine what this person might act like.
I don't end up with a set that usually matches with the set of your behaviors.
Is this gnosis on my part?
"
Here's what bugs me about certain types of name-calling:
They're body parts. (In this case, they're devices designed to interact with body parts.)
I am reminded of being in elementary school where the height of wit was to grab a friend and run up to some victim and Kid A would yell "Hi, right nut!" and Kid B would yell "Hi, left nut!" leaving the victim to deduce exactly what in the heck was going on.
Now that I think about it, wasn't the victim coming out ahead in that little exchange?
In any case, there are a number of taboos related to body parts and the interactions thereof. Invoking these taboos does a good job of pressing the taboo button on the part of the reader but does not do a particularly good job of transmitting *CONTENT*.
Let's say that your problem with Obama is that he told the military to defend the insurgents in Libya.
Is the word that is just as likely to be used to describe a guy who spills your beer at a campsite really the best you can do?
Because, from here, that tells me volumes about your vocabulary but little about Obama.
So you think he's a water bottle, do you?
Perhaps you could grab a friend and get some walkie-talkies and stand on opposite sides of the White House. "*crzzzt* Left Nut, over." "*crzzzt* Right Nut, over" "*crzzzt* we showed him!"
On “Muslims and PR: A response to comments”
some questions such as doctrinal ones can be addressed only by Muslims.
As someone who has opinions on Christian doctrine, I'd like to say "bullcrap".
On “Contra Tu Quoque, Or, Avoiding The Fourth Response”
Or, of course, the argument over physical requirements to be a firefighter.
Is it discriminatory to say that a firefighter has to demonstrate that he can carry a 200-pound sack of potatoes down a ladder? Sexist?
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Sometimes you have two bigotries that are mutually incompatible.
Pick to fight against the one bigotry and the automatic assumption is that you're okay with the other.
"You're only fighting for free speech for Mohammed Political Cartoons because you're still upset that Piss Christ got federal funding!"
That sort of thing.
On “Muslims and PR: A response to comments”
I think that Bill Maher is an excellent counter-argument to the trite assumption that libertarians are necessarily on the right.
Personally, I think you'd get more traction with "Feh, Maher's not a real libertarian!" than with "Maher is a Libertarian, Libertarians are on the right, QED!!!"
On “Why We Disagree About Taxes, Entitlements, and Economic Theory in General”
Stealing from Peter to pay Paul always seems more sustainable to Paul than Peter.
On “Muslims and the need for reform or, at least, better PR”
That's "Responsible Government".
On “Contra Tu Quoque, Or, Avoiding The Fourth Response”
How should people instead respond to posts that might offend them?
On “Muslims and the need for reform or, at least, better PR”
Hey, BSK! Down here!
You seemed to mock "relativism" earlier.
Here is my main question: Exactly what should we not tolerate? Why?
And, of course, what is your basis for being able to make that judgment?
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Suddenly we're not fans of relativism?
I don't know that you're going to like where non-relativism necessarily takes you in any given discussion regarding cultural differences.
I imagine that I'd be far more interested in exploring that territory than you are... let's find out.
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Why do we need to cite another country at all?
Well, I've got this weird tic.
If someone starts screaming about how awful X is on issue Y, and how wicked X is with regards to issue Y, and how they cannot believe how (screwed) up X is when it comes to Y and then, after some light investigation, that X is, in fact, the best on the issue of Y and there is not an example of any other entity out there that is better when it comes to Y?
Something weird is going on.
"
This was prior to 9/11. Afterwards, I would have avoided the discussion entirely.
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Is there tension between the American Religion and Islam?
I'm not asking "should it exist" or "are White People racists" or "are you a good person" but if is there a phenomenon of tension between the American Religion and Islam.
If there is tension between the American Religion and Islam, is this tension resolvable?
Does even asking this question demonstrate not only a number of personal shortcomings on my part but calls into question the character of anyone who would even ask such a question?
"
Back in my Superatheist! days, I went to the occasional Freethinkers (sigh) meeting.
After one of the more depressing ones (the speaker made fun of his grandmother's simple religious faith and expected us to laugh along), I was witnessed to by a Muslim gentleman of Arab extraction. I thought that this was a challenge I had never before contemplated... I was used to slapping around Christians, here was an opportunity to slap around a Muslim!
I began with talking about the five pillars. Charity, the pilgramage, Ramadan, prayer... and when I said what the Muslim affirmation of faith was, the gentleman put his hand into a fist, shook it in my face, and told me to never say the name of his prophet ever again.
Much less fun than slapping around Christians.
On “How Responsible Are You for Where Your Taxes Go?”
Eh, it's not limited to that. Remember the objections to "faith-based initiatives"? Good times.
On “High Hopes”
Team Gold is considered "crazy" by both Team Red and Team Blue... that is, when it's not being accused of secretly working for the opposing team.
I believe it has always been thus.