We got what he was willing to support in the Infrastructure bill. There little left in BBB that would be substantive that he'll get behind.
Frankly given his "defeat" on voting rights - where the Republicans he allegedly negotiated with then refused to back the bill he claimed they helped him write - you'd think he'd pivot a bit more.
Manchin is a centerist neoliberal democrat in a red state. He wants to retain his perceived power as a US Senator, as he's trying to be Robert Byrd 2.0 in a state that wouldn't elect Byrd today. Like Mitch McConnell he cares about keeping job first, making republican voters in West Virginia happy second (so he can keep his job), and making the national Democratic Party happy . . . about 56th. He knows that he has Schumer over multiple barrels due tot he slim/non existent majority in the Senate.
Even the worst ideas are protected by freedom of speech. The government cannot punish someone for having them.
And yet government entities - all be they local - are in fact seeking to remove ideas from school curricula under the guise of increasing parental choice and control.
No, but there are elections somewhere at some level every year. And these days - as we are seeing play out in real time - sate level elections are critical to keeping democracy alive. Many of those are intentionally in non-federal election years.
That was just a far more current example then the Civil War. Many of those participating in the capitol insurrection last year in support of his Coup were or are military members. Many of the members of the organizations most likely to start shooting were or are. But at the time the existing command structure made quite clear they were not in league with him and would not support using force to prevent the legal and peaceful transfer of power. Had it come down to it, any active duty member supporting him would most likely be arrested by their own.
It is a miscalculation to believe the majority (or even a plurality) of the professional military and police would support the conservative side in a shooting war domestically.
Writing for the court, Justice Neil Gorsuch said: "A reprimand, no matter how strongly worded, does not materially impair freedom of speech," especially when "the censure at issue before us was a form of speech" by the other elected representatives on the board.
Gorsuch noted that elected bodies in the U.S. have long exercised the power to censure their members. Members of Congress have long been censured by their fellow members for matters ranging from unethical conduct to "insulting...the Speaker."
In modern times, the Supreme Court has ruled that Congress, as well as state legislatures, may not refuse to seat a duly elected representative, but as the court noted on Thursday, "the power to exclude and the power to issue other, lesser forms of discipline are not fungible under our constitution."
Instead, as the court put it, "argument and counterargument, not litigation, are the weapons available for resolving this dispute."
The madness lies in criminalizing individual medical choice by women, and then whining when called out for it. The madness lies in telling doctors to report parents as child abusers who are trying to follow the latest medical and psychological guidance to support their children. The madness lies in continuing to threaten democracy because you don't like loosing. The madness lies in restricting who can vote when to keep from loosing more elections. One side of the politicla aisle is doing those things regularly, routinely and openly, because they have abandoned the pretext of agreeing to a shared realty. Much of it is - at least under the rules I grew up by - beyond the pale.
NeoNazzzzeeee Skinheads are rarely persuaded to cast off their views by being allowed to espouse them and then questioning them.
I accounted for him in my comments. The KKK members I grew up around were both open and irredeemable about it. They would no doubt have labeled him derisively as a cuck for "caving" to the other side. They did not see anything wrong with their world views - if anything we were the ones who they viewed as irredeemable. They had no interest in questioning or changing.
I think any arbitration has to be grounded in some basic principles about reality. Everyone doesn’t have to agree with them, but everyone has to agree to act within them.
This is a very profound indictment of modern America as a nation. A sizable chunk of our fellow citizens seem to have decided not only to abandon prior agreements on what those reality principles are, they also seem to have abandoned any pretext of acting with in them. We still do here at OT (mostly) but IRL its becoming increasingly hard to avoid this divorce.
so you'd be ok with a person who belongs to a white nationalist organization, which openly espouses and pursues policies designed to actively oppress non-white citizens, remaining employed if he or she openly advocated that position while at work? You see no societal detriment to that person having both a platform and employment to support them?
So you think all the Capitol insurrectionists from last year don't deserve to be fired, much less prosecuted, since according to the GOP they were engaged in - checks notes - patriotic political discourse?
SO you are ok with the highly restrictive abortion laws being enacted in those states? Which not only restrict women's rights significantly but empower ordinary citizens to bounty hunt as a method of enforcement?
You recently wrote an essay in this site that contained a number of documented lies. I pointed this out and instead of debating me, you told me - more then once - to write and essay in response, rather then engage with both my critique and the untruths your essay contained. You accused me of bad faith and refused to debate.
So no, I don't think you believe in free speech absolutism.
And you make the mistake that the military would willingly shoot their own brothers in the streets.
They made it publicly clear they were not going to support Donald Trump's Coup. Which tells me they take their oath to protect and defend the Constitution seriously. Its a grave miscalculation to think the military is on the side of the bigots and subversive nationalists.
Red Herring. Sure, he should be allowed to disrupt it, and then he should be ready for the massive shaming and physical violence against his person that would ensue. And his mouthing off such lies would very helpfully reinforce the point of how and why the Holocaust came to be.
When you decide that, you will never convince those who hold those views to change their ways.
NeoNazzzzeeee Skinheads are rarely persuaded to cast off their views by being allowed to espouse them and then questioning them. Ditto Flatearthers. Or 2020 Truthers.
You do realize black men did that with Klan members during the last two centuries, right?
FNC is one long running cable channel. OAN is a newer but still extant cable channel. newsmax is still a newer but extant cable channel. Sinclair broadcasting is an old but quite expanded media conglomerate. The Wall Street Journal is as venerable as the NYT. Hell the NY Post is nearly that old and venerable.
On “BBB Needs A Deadline”
We got what he was willing to support in the Infrastructure bill. There little left in BBB that would be substantive that he'll get behind.
Frankly given his "defeat" on voting rights - where the Republicans he allegedly negotiated with then refused to back the bill he claimed they helped him write - you'd think he'd pivot a bit more.
"
Manchin is a centerist neoliberal democrat in a red state. He wants to retain his perceived power as a US Senator, as he's trying to be Robert Byrd 2.0 in a state that wouldn't elect Byrd today. Like Mitch McConnell he cares about keeping job first, making republican voters in West Virginia happy second (so he can keep his job), and making the national Democratic Party happy . . . about 56th. He knows that he has Schumer over multiple barrels due tot he slim/non existent majority in the Senate.
Its not actually that hard.
On “Discretion Has No Substitute: Lessons In Moving The Overton Window”
And yet government entities - all be they local - are in fact seeking to remove ideas from school curricula under the guise of increasing parental choice and control.
"
No, but there are elections somewhere at some level every year. And these days - as we are seeing play out in real time - sate level elections are critical to keeping democracy alive. Many of those are intentionally in non-federal election years.
"
That was just a far more current example then the Civil War. Many of those participating in the capitol insurrection last year in support of his Coup were or are military members. Many of the members of the organizations most likely to start shooting were or are. But at the time the existing command structure made quite clear they were not in league with him and would not support using force to prevent the legal and peaceful transfer of power. Had it come down to it, any active duty member supporting him would most likely be arrested by their own.
It is a miscalculation to believe the majority (or even a plurality) of the professional military and police would support the conservative side in a shooting war domestically.
"
Apropos of nothing, I'm Sure:
https://www.npr.org/2022/03/24/1088670531/supreme-court-upholds-right-to-censure-in-case-of-obstreperous-school-board-memb
"
The madness lies in criminalizing individual medical choice by women, and then whining when called out for it. The madness lies in telling doctors to report parents as child abusers who are trying to follow the latest medical and psychological guidance to support their children. The madness lies in continuing to threaten democracy because you don't like loosing. The madness lies in restricting who can vote when to keep from loosing more elections. One side of the politicla aisle is doing those things regularly, routinely and openly, because they have abandoned the pretext of agreeing to a shared realty. Much of it is - at least under the rules I grew up by - beyond the pale.
"
I accounted for him in my comments. The KKK members I grew up around were both open and irredeemable about it. They would no doubt have labeled him derisively as a cuck for "caving" to the other side. They did not see anything wrong with their world views - if anything we were the ones who they viewed as irredeemable. They had no interest in questioning or changing.
"
This is a very profound indictment of modern America as a nation. A sizable chunk of our fellow citizens seem to have decided not only to abandon prior agreements on what those reality principles are, they also seem to have abandoned any pretext of acting with in them. We still do here at OT (mostly) but IRL its becoming increasingly hard to avoid this divorce.
"
so you'd be ok with a person who belongs to a white nationalist organization, which openly espouses and pursues policies designed to actively oppress non-white citizens, remaining employed if he or she openly advocated that position while at work? You see no societal detriment to that person having both a platform and employment to support them?
"
Would you fire a KKK employee?
"
So you think all the Capitol insurrectionists from last year don't deserve to be fired, much less prosecuted, since according to the GOP they were engaged in - checks notes - patriotic political discourse?
"
I saw this yesterday. Made my blood boil.
"
SO you are ok with the highly restrictive abortion laws being enacted in those states? Which not only restrict women's rights significantly but empower ordinary citizens to bounty hunt as a method of enforcement?
"
You recently wrote an essay in this site that contained a number of documented lies. I pointed this out and instead of debating me, you told me - more then once - to write and essay in response, rather then engage with both my critique and the untruths your essay contained. You accused me of bad faith and refused to debate.
So no, I don't think you believe in free speech absolutism.
"
Bingo
"
If every concept or idea should be debated then yes, the heckler's veto is fine and dandy.
"
They made it publicly clear they were not going to support Donald Trump's Coup. Which tells me they take their oath to protect and defend the Constitution seriously. Its a grave miscalculation to think the military is on the side of the bigots and subversive nationalists.
"
What corporation is conducting live organ harvesting in China's Muslim regions? What corporation is condoning it?
"
Red Herring. Sure, he should be allowed to disrupt it, and then he should be ready for the massive shaming and physical violence against his person that would ensue. And his mouthing off such lies would very helpfully reinforce the point of how and why the Holocaust came to be.
"
In Texas, Missouri and Oklahoma they are today's atrocities.
"
And yet you tend to rankle when called out for pretty much anything you write. Fascinating.
"
NeoNazzzzeeee Skinheads are rarely persuaded to cast off their views by being allowed to espouse them and then questioning them. Ditto Flatearthers. Or 2020 Truthers.
And got lynched for it. Literally.
"
Then nothing is off limits to shame or shun or disparage either.
"
FNC is one long running cable channel. OAN is a newer but still extant cable channel. newsmax is still a newer but extant cable channel. Sinclair broadcasting is an old but quite expanded media conglomerate. The Wall Street Journal is as venerable as the NYT. Hell the NY Post is nearly that old and venerable.