Actually Bucky, "power corrupts" is at the heart of libertarian thinking. It is the core dictum of libertarianism. But hey, if you want to name me all the bad things those Evil Corporations do I'm sure we could line them up next to all the bad things that governments do and see who wins. Then we can talk about power corrupting.
Bucky, these are terrible examples. You obviously have a very poor grasp on libertarianism and are arguing with the straw man that you and other progressives have erected in place of actual libertarianism. Organized crime? Monopolies? You really think these are issues libertarians haven't grappled with? I'm pretty sure if libertarians had their way we'd have a hell of a lot less organized crime.
Koz - if I recall correctly - is not a libertarian, he is a conservative. And he has a point - up to a point. Some things can't be prevented or predicted, no matter how hard we try. I don't fall into the camp that says no regulations ever on anything; I believe safety regulations should be soberly applied to industrial outfits. But take the financial sphere - can we regulate them faster than they can find and exploit our loopholes?
Francis - I wasn't aware that this topic was limited to the federal government. Plenty of the worst abuses of government occur at the state and local levels.
Katherine - I agree that safety and environment regulations can be necessary. But it's important to still look at those regulations closely and make sure they're not driving out competition to entrenched players by raising the barrier to entry in the market too high.
I think that's pretty much correct, Mike, but I think there are some pretty entrenched, massive corporations whose behavior has larger societal implications - i.e. BP and the oil spill; the finance sector, etc.
I'd say this: Progressives believe that more government regulations and a better government is the best way to keep corporations in line. Libertarians believe that more competition is the only way to keep corporations honest, and that more regulations tend to lead to less competition, thus protecting corporations from the best tool we have to keep them honest in the first place.
Obviously questions of regulation and deregulation are going to be complicated and it's going to depend a great deal from one issue to the next. In a broad discussion of ideas I don't think it's necessary to get terribly specific, but in a more tightly wound discussion of specific policies, one would need to assess the nitty gritty of each rule and whether it passes muster. I think Carter's deregulation of the trucking industry is a case in point. Trucking in this country used to be an impossible maze of rules and regulations, going so far as to determine what order trucks had to pass through various cities. The new regulations generally focus only on hours on the road, safety concerns related to accidents, and the gathering and transparency of that data. One might conclude that even the new rules are too time-consuming, but it's obvious that they're better than the old rules. Deregulation, in this sense, worked but it did not strip away all regulations of the trucking industry - only some of the more onerous, anti-competitive ones.
Like I said, Tom, I don't know much about them other than it strikes me as essentially left-wing socialist academia. I'm well aware that libertarianism and American-style conservatism are rather rare in Europe. I like David Cameron but I realize, too, how far to the left of American conservatives he is in many ways. (Though his Big Society is compelling - we'll see how far it gets.)
Freddie is very sincere in his beliefs; and as he notes in his essay, he likes and admires many of the people he critiques and even wishes he could agree more with them. This is exactly how I feel about Freddie, actually.
Really wonderful post, Lisa. I agree with you especially in regards to extremism. Extremism isn't the problem at all - it's dishonesty and insincerity that's the problem. And civility is only worthwhile if it's bulwarked by some passion or truth. Great post.
On “Progressives vs. Libertarians”
Actually Bucky, "power corrupts" is at the heart of libertarian thinking. It is the core dictum of libertarianism. But hey, if you want to name me all the bad things those Evil Corporations do I'm sure we could line them up next to all the bad things that governments do and see who wins. Then we can talk about power corrupting.
"
Bucky, these are terrible examples. You obviously have a very poor grasp on libertarianism and are arguing with the straw man that you and other progressives have erected in place of actual libertarianism. Organized crime? Monopolies? You really think these are issues libertarians haven't grappled with? I'm pretty sure if libertarians had their way we'd have a hell of a lot less organized crime.
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The "laissez-faire" of the 19th century was crony capitalism.
On “Luxury has progressed: the rise of the global elite”
This all assumes this country is going down the toilet, a position I would personally not take.
On “Commenter Tribunals”
Agreed.
On “Progressives vs. Libertarians”
Koz - if I recall correctly - is not a libertarian, he is a conservative. And he has a point - up to a point. Some things can't be prevented or predicted, no matter how hard we try. I don't fall into the camp that says no regulations ever on anything; I believe safety regulations should be soberly applied to industrial outfits. But take the financial sphere - can we regulate them faster than they can find and exploit our loopholes?
"
Francis - I wasn't aware that this topic was limited to the federal government. Plenty of the worst abuses of government occur at the state and local levels.
"
Katherine - I agree that safety and environment regulations can be necessary. But it's important to still look at those regulations closely and make sure they're not driving out competition to entrenched players by raising the barrier to entry in the market too high.
"
I think that's pretty much correct, Mike, but I think there are some pretty entrenched, massive corporations whose behavior has larger societal implications - i.e. BP and the oil spill; the finance sector, etc.
"
I'd say this: Progressives believe that more government regulations and a better government is the best way to keep corporations in line. Libertarians believe that more competition is the only way to keep corporations honest, and that more regulations tend to lead to less competition, thus protecting corporations from the best tool we have to keep them honest in the first place.
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Uh-oh, you just said both sides do it.
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Mark - you need to close your tags by placing the / before the letter. So < / i > with no spaces.
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I think that's a pretty good way to sum up the problem.
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I think the liberaltarian project could still survive, but count me among the disillusioned.
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Obviously questions of regulation and deregulation are going to be complicated and it's going to depend a great deal from one issue to the next. In a broad discussion of ideas I don't think it's necessary to get terribly specific, but in a more tightly wound discussion of specific policies, one would need to assess the nitty gritty of each rule and whether it passes muster. I think Carter's deregulation of the trucking industry is a case in point. Trucking in this country used to be an impossible maze of rules and regulations, going so far as to determine what order trucks had to pass through various cities. The new regulations generally focus only on hours on the road, safety concerns related to accidents, and the gathering and transparency of that data. One might conclude that even the new rules are too time-consuming, but it's obvious that they're better than the old rules. Deregulation, in this sense, worked but it did not strip away all regulations of the trucking industry - only some of the more onerous, anti-competitive ones.
On “No True Leftist”
If the silence is deafening, I think those who feel the need to replace it with some voice should speak.
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Like I said, Tom, I don't know much about them other than it strikes me as essentially left-wing socialist academia. I'm well aware that libertarianism and American-style conservatism are rather rare in Europe. I like David Cameron but I realize, too, how far to the left of American conservatives he is in many ways. (Though his Big Society is compelling - we'll see how far it gets.)
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What about Crooked Timber? I don't read it a lot, but those guys seem pretty left-wing in a more, uhm, left-wing sense of the phrase...
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I think he makes some valid points, but perhaps it deserves another post...
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Freddie is very sincere in his beliefs; and as he notes in his essay, he likes and admires many of the people he critiques and even wishes he could agree more with them. This is exactly how I feel about Freddie, actually.
On “Think Tank Wars”
Jaybird - this response was spot-on by the way. I keep meaning to mention that.
On “Sport, Spectacle, Decorum, Politics”
Really great post, JL.
On “Some thoughts on Obama’s memorial service remarks”
Really wonderful post, Lisa. I agree with you especially in regards to extremism. Extremism isn't the problem at all - it's dishonesty and insincerity that's the problem. And civility is only worthwhile if it's bulwarked by some passion or truth. Great post.
On “Balloon Juice Actually Makes Sense…”
And of course there is no bias in Academia.
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Tell me about it.
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