When I saw the post title, I assumed this was going to be about browsers.
Anyway, absent any misrepresentation and any violation of documented standards, this seems like a bad area for legal action. The appropriate punishment for Hyundai and Kia is that their sales suffer (at least in America -- I've read that this so far has not been an issue in other countries. Hooray for American ingenuity!). There are all sorts of unintended consequences that could arise from setting an implicit legal obligation that all car companies have to match what most of their competitors do in any arbitrary area outside of public safety (obviously even in that domain there are plenty of unintended consequences, but the justification there is a little stronger).
$1 million net worth isn't a very significant amount of money anymore, at least by the time one is nearing retirement age. $1 million in 1975 would be >$5 million in today's dollars -- what do the stats say about hitting that number?
Yes, I wasn't slamming every discussion or even every disagreement -- just some of those times when there's a lot of frustrating back and forth between people who are taking very different approaches to the question.
I'm the same way -- there's a part of me that still thinks that a disinterested observer would see the decoupling position as the superior one as a rule, but I found it a helpful nudge to think in terms of different styles rather than better vs worse. Also he does mention elsewhere that this is partly contextual as opposed to an essential characteristic -- we might be high-decouplers in one context and low in another.
I do find that whenever I return to it, it reminds me that a lot of the jawing here is rather pointless -- no amount of arguing is likely to move someone from one style to the other.
This sounds more or less like the "high decoupler vs low decoupler" thing. Some people's brains are more tuned to analytical/scientific approaches and can more easily discuss ideas abstractly and dispassionately, while others' have more of a social/emotional/narrative orientation and set up high walls to anything that seems like it will violate an internal or social rule. I think this axis is mostly independent from liberal-conservative.
Our corporate owner has a policy of adding an extra day to all the major holidays, and for the Monday holidays it's always a Friday, so I'm "off" today as well. However, as one who's responsible for delivery, I have decidedly mixed feelings about it. As it's a fairly recent development for our division, we tend to forget about it when planning delivery dates, and since our clients generally don't have the day off we have to scramble to work out coverage and to tell everyone they need to be checking in in case of fire. Plus of course these extra holidays that are foisted on us are not accounted for at budget time when the same corporate overlords are pushing on us to raise our NOI target. There's a mostly unspoken assumption that folks past a certain level don't actually take the extra day as a real holiday.
That's been a known thing forever. I recall learning in a Sociology class about four decades ago that in the early days of TV commercials, surveys were done asking people if their purchases were influenced by the commercials they saw, and they largely responded No. However, it was clear from the actual sales bumps after a TV ad campaign that there was plenty of influence. When the surveys asked if people thought their friends and neighbors were influenced by the ads, the results were much more inline with the sales numbers.
You understand that Red states are not going into Mexico and plucking these people out to ship to other areas, right? These are people already illegally entering the country and overwhelming the border towns.
I'm absolutely not defending the practice -- in a more sensible world, everyone would be cooperating on how best to manage and spread the load. But your comment is simply ignoring the underlying problem.
Whether it backfired or not depends on what the goal was, but one effect of it was that you and many others with no personal impact from illegal immigration have spent more time thinking about it than you would have otherwise.
"Best I can tell its coming from men who STILL are not comfortable with women’s agency"
You have a common bias towards believing the worst of people who disagree with you and preferring to focus on areas where your own opinions are least threatened. There are plenty of voices out there for these concerns but in all likelihood you've already slotted them as being outside your consideration.
If you're truly interested, JK Rowling is probably the most famous representative of the concerns I mentioned. But she's already been labelled "transphobe!" even though she is not a man, not a conservative, and not at all uncomfortable with women's agency (quite the opposite in fact!).
I know several women who are lifelong liberals who feel uncomfortable with the extent to which some of these proposals relax the longstanding social conventions.
But it's interesting to see that White Male Liberals are now fine with mansplaining to women whether it's reasonable for them to feel safe or not. Progress!!??
I tend to do a mental ignore but don’t use the actual function here. I do a lot of my comment reading on SOTD where it doesn’t apply anyway.
Some people just like to spar, and that’s ok, but it takes two people to commit to a productive conversation. No reason to be obligated to talk to someone wearing boxing gloves.
Asking for civility without epistemic humility is a lost cause. Otherwise the response is always a Goldwaterian “moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!”
As Scott Alexander pointed out almost a decade ago, "white people" as used by liberals doesn't mean "people who are white", it means "people in my outgroup".
*Comment archive for non-registered commenters assembled by email address as provided.
On “From Politico: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve”
I’m second generation and product of a mixed marriage, and i didn’t even know what caste my father was in until I was an adult.
Here are some thoughts from someone a little less removed from it: https://twitter.com/ZaidJilani/status/1699275730788499760
On “Chrome & Punishment”
When I saw the post title, I assumed this was going to be about browsers.
Anyway, absent any misrepresentation and any violation of documented standards, this seems like a bad area for legal action. The appropriate punishment for Hyundai and Kia is that their sales suffer (at least in America -- I've read that this so far has not been an issue in other countries. Hooray for American ingenuity!). There are all sorts of unintended consequences that could arise from setting an implicit legal obligation that all car companies have to match what most of their competitors do in any arbitrary area outside of public safety (obviously even in that domain there are plenty of unintended consequences, but the justification there is a little stronger).
On “From Politico: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve”
A can of worms makes great conversation bait.
On “Open Mic for the week of 8/28/2023”
$1 million net worth isn't a very significant amount of money anymore, at least by the time one is nearing retirement age. $1 million in 1975 would be >$5 million in today's dollars -- what do the stats say about hitting that number?
"
Yes, I wasn't slamming every discussion or even every disagreement -- just some of those times when there's a lot of frustrating back and forth between people who are taking very different approaches to the question.
"
Well, you probably shouldn't trust my take on it -- looking at it now, I don't think what I said captured it quite right.
"
I'm the same way -- there's a part of me that still thinks that a disinterested observer would see the decoupling position as the superior one as a rule, but I found it a helpful nudge to think in terms of different styles rather than better vs worse. Also he does mention elsewhere that this is partly contextual as opposed to an essential characteristic -- we might be high-decouplers in one context and low in another.
I do find that whenever I return to it, it reminds me that a lot of the jawing here is rather pointless -- no amount of arguing is likely to move someone from one style to the other.
"
This sounds more or less like the "high decoupler vs low decoupler" thing. Some people's brains are more tuned to analytical/scientific approaches and can more easily discuss ideas abstractly and dispassionately, while others' have more of a social/emotional/narrative orientation and set up high walls to anything that seems like it will violate an internal or social rule. I think this axis is mostly independent from liberal-conservative.
"
Actually no, they let him off with a horning.
On “Weekend Plans Post: Doing the Fair”
Our corporate owner has a policy of adding an extra day to all the major holidays, and for the Monday holidays it's always a Friday, so I'm "off" today as well. However, as one who's responsible for delivery, I have decidedly mixed feelings about it. As it's a fairly recent development for our division, we tend to forget about it when planning delivery dates, and since our clients generally don't have the day off we have to scramble to work out coverage and to tell everyone they need to be checking in in case of fire. Plus of course these extra holidays that are foisted on us are not accounted for at budget time when the same corporate overlords are pushing on us to raise our NOI target. There's a mostly unspoken assumption that folks past a certain level don't actually take the extra day as a real holiday.
On “How to Make People Care About Democratic Achievements”
That's been a known thing forever. I recall learning in a Sociology class about four decades ago that in the early days of TV commercials, surveys were done asking people if their purchases were influenced by the commercials they saw, and they largely responded No. However, it was clear from the actual sales bumps after a TV ad campaign that there was plenty of influence. When the surveys asked if people thought their friends and neighbors were influenced by the ads, the results were much more inline with the sales numbers.
On “The Maleficent Gordon Gee and His Malfunctioning Money Machine”
Well now it's +3.74, due to the increasing opportunities to spend these points elsewhere.
On “Open Mic for the week of 8/21/2023”
You understand that Red states are not going into Mexico and plucking these people out to ship to other areas, right? These are people already illegally entering the country and overwhelming the border towns.
I'm absolutely not defending the practice -- in a more sensible world, everyone would be cooperating on how best to manage and spread the load. But your comment is simply ignoring the underlying problem.
"
Whether it backfired or not depends on what the goal was, but one effect of it was that you and many others with no personal impact from illegal immigration have spent more time thinking about it than you would have otherwise.
On “Weekend Plans Post: Winding Down”
I'm sure that one's been done many times by now, but still I felt pretty good about coming up with it here.
"
CatGPT
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Nice photoshop skills! :)
"
Why are you posting all these different pictures of the same cat?
On “Open Mic for the week of 8/21/2023”
"Best I can tell its coming from men who STILL are not comfortable with women’s agency"
You have a common bias towards believing the worst of people who disagree with you and preferring to focus on areas where your own opinions are least threatened. There are plenty of voices out there for these concerns but in all likelihood you've already slotted them as being outside your consideration.
If you're truly interested, JK Rowling is probably the most famous representative of the concerns I mentioned. But she's already been labelled "transphobe!" even though she is not a man, not a conservative, and not at all uncomfortable with women's agency (quite the opposite in fact!).
"
I know several women who are lifelong liberals who feel uncomfortable with the extent to which some of these proposals relax the longstanding social conventions.
But it's interesting to see that White Male Liberals are now fine with mansplaining to women whether it's reasonable for them to feel safe or not. Progress!!??
On “Let’s Save America with Civility”
It’s my favorite feature on this site, and I wish all blogs/Substacks/etc had it. Thanks for all your ongoing work on it (and all the rest)!
"
I tend to do a mental ignore but don’t use the actual function here. I do a lot of my comment reading on SOTD where it doesn’t apply anyway.
Some people just like to spar, and that’s ok, but it takes two people to commit to a productive conversation. No reason to be obligated to talk to someone wearing boxing gloves.
"
And/or “the other side is worse!”
"
Asking for civility without epistemic humility is a lost cause. Otherwise the response is always a Goldwaterian “moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!”
On “Open Mic for the week of 8/21/2023”
As Scott Alexander pointed out almost a decade ago, "white people" as used by liberals doesn't mean "people who are white", it means "people in my outgroup".
*Comment archive for non-registered commenters assembled by email address as provided.