Reflections on Liberal Christianity in Illiberal Times.

Philip H

Philip H is an oceanographer who makes his way in the world trying to use more autonomy to sample and thus understand the world's ocean. He's a proud federal scientist, husband, father, woodworker and modelrailroader. The son of a historian and public-school teacher and the nephew and grandson of preachers, he believes one of his greatest marks on the world will be the words he leaves behind. To that end he writes here at OT and blogs very occasionally at District of Columbia Dispatches. Philip's views are definitely his own, and in no way reflect the official or unofficial position of any agency he works for now or has worked for in his career. If you disagree, take it up with him, not Congress.

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11 Responses

  1. Receipts, please.

    Much! Many! Seem to believe! You know I’m down with a good generalization about overall trends but as I read this article I am deluged, positively deluged with examples that I have personally witnessed firsthand, to the contrary.

    “Christians aren’t perfect” is not a basis for a generalization-based argument. There are bad Christians, mistaken Christians, false Christians, etc but you are saying that MANY and MOST Christians are a certain way and using an example of one person in isolation to “prove” your assertion. Isn’t this playing the Chinese Robbers game? https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/09/16/cardiologists-and-chinese-robbers/

    Just because people don’t agree that GOVERNMENT is the best mechanism by which to help the poor (and at this point honestly I don’t even get how any of you can believe this, as lousy a job as it does, and how much corruption there is, and how much misery produced in the recipients of this “help”) that doesn’t mean that those of us in that category (including Christians, but not only Christians) don’t believe in helping the poor, and aren’t doing exactly that in many ways that you would find some reason to handwave away, but are more real and more effective than any government program.Report

    • I find it fascinating that you honed in on the charity point and not the larger issue about many Christians becoming more interested in the performative aspects of the faith and not the hard work of the faith. There are many successful church based charity approaches in the world – the church I grew up in is well known locally for them. But they can not tackle the issues at scale. And government does do a lot more good then it gets credit for.Report

      • Oscar Gordon in reply to Philip H says:

        I will grant that the performative aspect is grating. Or, the whole charity, but only for people that are deemed acceptable or deserving.

        The problem Kristin touches on is that you don’t really present any data suggesting that such is really a problem within the faith as a whole.

        Is there some polling data to suggest that people feel that way and are willing to be honest about it?Report

    • Zane in reply to Kristin Devine says:

      This is in response only to your third paragraph. I do believe the government is the best mechanism by which to help the poor. Yes, the United States often does not do a good job of assisting the poor; but much of that is due to Americans’ profound ambivalence (at best) or hostility (at worst) to addressing poverty. Much of the waste and misery you mention comes down to our strident efforts to exclude the “undeserving” poor from assistance.

      However, when we look at programs like Medicare and Social Security retirement, we find efficient and profoundly effective anti-poverty programs. It’s difficult for me to imagine any of the multitude of religious organizations in the US implementing something as effective as either Medicare or Social Security have been in reducing poverty among the elderly in the US.

      As to the rest, I have no horse in the race as to whether Christians are being Christian. I’m always wary of those who argue they hold universal truth and use their power to oppress people like me and mine.Report

  2. Jaybird says:

    As someone who does not believe in a deity, I see complaints about Christians not acting Christian as not particularly surprising.

    I mean, if someone said “Those Muslims aren’t behaving particularly Islamic” or “Those Jews aren’t behaving particularly Jewish” or “Those Buddhist Monks sure spend a lot of time bragging about their fighting styles and beating each other up which doesn’t seem particularly Buddhist to me based on the 3 credit hours I got for Buddhism back in 1996”, we’d know to say “that’s kind of effed up… what the hell do you mean?” as a starting point.

    But when it comes to our ability to criticize Methodists, it all makes sense.

    “Maybe they let out early for a reason”, some say.Report

  3. Jennifer Worrel says:

    How does your church address these concerns?

    Or is there a chance you’re throwing stones from inside a glass house?Report