State of the Discussion

The posts in play...

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D. Linker on Culture War-Abortion
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Emerging From the Hedged Roe
(6)
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Roe and the Culture War Morass
(12)
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compromising yourself into the discussion
(19)
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Capitulation and Retreat
(3)
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The comments...

Avatarmatoko_chan
+ More importantly the view you hold has no legs culturally. Evolutionary Theory of Culture 101-- culture doesnt shape society as much as society shapes culture according [. . .]
Avatarmatoko_chan
+ I think pancascadian is right....the seven states with red majorities would implement abortion restriction, and that would just lead to another "intervention" by the Supremes. Giant [. . .]
+ Mark, I know of the Ely law article but haven't had the chance to read it. It seems like I need to go back and [. . .]
Avatarmatoko_chan
+ the effect of uniting both the pro-life and pro-choice sides of the issue. But this simply isn't true. Submitted empirical data--the epic fail of Colorado Prop 48. There [. . .]
+ Dave: As much as I respect David Bernstein, if he made that argument, that argument would appear to be wrong, as the Ely law review [. . .]
+ Matoko, as a matter of principle, do you support the decision in Lochner? Mark, as a quick point, I think there was an article written by [. . .]
AvatarBob
+ The post "What 'Belongs' In the Stimulus" by Yglesias does NOT even mention deficits. He is only questioning the reasoning of those who oppose [. . .]
AvatarCascadian
+ I'm having a hard time seeing past my pet positions. Larison might be right. Instead of defanging the culture war, it might present [. . .]
AvatarMikeF
+ the many large concessions that Democrats have made I think the biggest master stroke of the Obama administration so far has been convincing people that the [. . .]
+ That's a fair point. I just don't see Ross recognizing what to me is a bare fact: by refusing to compromise at all on the [. . .]
+ isn't Ross's point more about the ideology of the bill itself? I took him to be saying that, whether or not Republicans are willing [. . .]
AvatarChris Dierkes
+ Dave, I'm not really sure where you got the 'i'm after punishing sex' line. For me it's more about trying to craft legislation that recognizes [. . .]
+ Dave Hunter: Are you referring to me with that? Because I'm not sure where I implied that I'm in favor of results-oriented decisions. (If [. . .]
+ Matoko - have you ever actually read Roe? Roe does not provide nearly the absolute rights you seem to credit it with, and Casey, [. . .]
AvatarDave Hunter

So, you're in support of results-oriented judicial decisions.

Avatarmatoko_chan
+ /yawn I'll swallow this mess of pottage if you can tell me how teh "terribly flawed" Roe v Wade is substantially different in mechanism or form [. . .]
AvatarDave Hunter
+ Chris Dierkes; "But can you see that the entire disagreement roughly comes back to this point: is abortion in that category? in fact both sides [. . .]

Chris - you are absolutely correct. More on this shortly....

AvatarChris Dierkes
+ iow, I think it just muddles along as is and has a corrosive effect on civil society. Whatever else one thinks about the morality [. . .]
AvatarChris Dierkes
+ Freddie, An issue (I wouldn't say the) might be that if Mark's analysis has some validity then it is not just the who has the more [. . .]
+ The issue, fundamentally, is whether Roe was legally and Constitutionally correct No. That was the issue while the decision was being decided. Now the issue is [. . .]

How dare you consider nuance in this debate, Mark. For shame!

+ There's one important thing that seems to be missing from this argument: whether a majority of Americans want to see Roe overturned is (or at [. . .]

Ah well, the horse can take it.... ;)

AvatarBob
+ I applaud Larison for his nod to historical context and allowing for the multivalent, but those qualifiers broaden any discussion, something the dogmatic are loath [. . .]
+ Cascadian.... < blockquote > you savvy? followed by < /blockquote > minus the spaces... You can use em or i for italics...not sure about [. . .]
Avatarmatoko_chan
+ infant/fetus rights (same thing in reverse). Incompletely differentiated cell clumps do not have citizen rights. The very first thing the right must abandon is personhood/life at conception. [. . .]
Avatarmatoko_chan
+ I am not advocating anything. I am speaking truth. Sure, there should be two parties. But it certainly isn't my say. I am saying the current form of the [. . .]
AvatarChris Dierkes
+ well at least we are getting to the central issue then. matoko your view assumes abortion is in the same category as segregation, racial [. . .]
Avatarmatoko_chan

I am not talking individuals......I said the republican brand.
Those culture war issues are welded onto the GOP.
I'm just speakin truth.

AvatarCascadian
+ matoko: I'm a card carrying Republican. I used to be a precinct captain. I guarantee you that I have not thrown [. . .]
Avatarmatoko_chan
+ So what Chris? 70% of high school seniors would not have an abortion. 60% of high school seniors are against overturning Roe. Like with racial discrimination, anti-miscegenation and [. . .]
+ Chris--agreed. And am in general agreement regarding the post at large, as I am grudginlgy pro-choice but do see more room for restrictions and [. . .]
Avatarmatoko_chan
+ " the GOP and the culture wars are two entirely different things." FALSE! E. D., the GOP has become synonomynous with teh culture wars. What is the GOP [. . .]
AvatarChris Dierkes
+ The relevant question is not whether the GOP are useless morons (they are). Or that more people (esp. younger) generally subscribe to a set [. . .]
+ But matako, you yourself use the term "eventually" regarding prop 8; and don't be sure of anything regarding Roe v Wade--that can change with the [. . .]
+ Maybe, but the GOP and the culture wars are two entirely different things. And if you haven't noticed, politics, culture--it all moves in circles. [. . .]
Avatarmatoko_chan
+ Prop 8 will be eventually overturned by judicial fiat. Does anyone doubt that? Roe v Wade will never be overturned. Neither will Brown v Board or Loving v [. . .]
Avatarmatoko_chan
+ Nope. Its ovah. And I'm not arrogant......I'm mathic. Frum. Gallup’s latest polling reveals the continuing collapse of the Republican party's base vote. The news is so [. . .]
AvatarCascadian

"14th Amendment problemmatic? Maybe another topic post. I’d be in this one for sure."

Sounds fun. Start one up.

14th Amendment problemmatic? Maybe another topic post. I'd be in this one for sure. :)

+ Culture wars never end. They are usually not termed "wars" and shouldn't be, but they never end. At what point in time has [. . .]
AvatarCascadian
+ I agree with most of Linker's piece, though that will carry little weight here. I agree that the problem is Constitutional and that Roe [. . .]
+ Matoko, I think that it will be news to my friends who are currently fighting for marriage equality that the culture war is over. It [. . .]