State of the Discussion

The posts in play...

On Gates/Crowley
“Like Bruce Springsteen, he has a lot of bad political ideas; but he was born in the U.S.A.”
Second Thoughts
So now what?

The comments...

+ I should add that believe it or not, I don't think Crowley lied to WEEI. I think that by the time a week had gone [. . .]
AvatarSam M
+ From the editorial: "There is nothing that President Obama’s coterie would enjoy more than to see the responsible Right become a mirror image of the loopy [. . .]
+ But if things are wrapping up and the person is not being charged, there is no policing situation to interfere with! As for leaving [. . .]
+ The birthers are like the Mumia folk. They just suck all the oxygen out of the room. But, interestingly, they make for a handy tool for the [. . .]
+ Well, here's the audio. I'm a big fan of making sure of constant audio/video of police officers while they are on duty. It protects everybody and [. . .]
+ Mike at the Big Stick, I'm going to agree to disagree and be done with this. Mark has laid out a substantial argument as to [. . .]
AvatarJaybird in reply to greginak
+ Eh, I don't know. The blue dogs are modern boll weevils. Socially conservative, arguably fiscally conservative. I think they're representing their constituents in aggregate rather [. . .]
+ We're back to our core disagreement. I think excessive behavior like Gates exhibited interferes with a policing situation, even if things are wrapping up and [. . .]
AvatarJaybird in reply to Barry
+ The right-wingers are running with what they suspect will work for them. For a long, long time the Republican Party was the "tough on crime" party. [. . .]
+ Yes, but Gates was minding his own business and not breaking any laws. Whether he was ranting and raving right from the start is [. . .]
Avatargreginak in reply to Jaybird
+ Well it is possible, just possible, that politicians do things to benefit the people who donate gigantic wads of $$$ to them. And they also [. . .]

I guess it's why I find most libertarians so hard to take seriously. It's their habit of exaggeration.

Yeah, yeah. We're talking about people yelling in public, order must be maintained, history won't protect you from burglaries, eyes down, etc.

I guess it's about time for another Nazi reference now, isn't it? Or I guess you are going the Soviet route?

AvatarJaybird in reply to greginak
+ If the blue dogs are being called by their constituents saying "don't you do none of that health care reform foolishness!!!", are the representatives doing [. . .]
+ Read your Solzhenitsyn. The Gulag Archipelago has a wonderful chapter talking about the relationship of the citizens with the police. The primacy of social order [. . .]

They'll just change to American-style profanity based on sex and bodily functions. A pity for the cultural damage, though.

Avatargreginak in reply to Jaybird
+ We are a representative democracy. The blue dogs are working at cross-purposes with the rest of their party and with their own stated desires. They [. . .]
+ Jaybird: "This would have happened to anybody. It’s not wrong because it happened to a person of color. It’s wrong because it happened to [. . .]
+ My point is that ranting and raving is an understandable reaction to questionable incarceration that should not be (and thankfully cannot be) criminalized. Maybe we're [. . .]
AvatarJaybird in reply to greginak
+ "the “blue dog” dem’s hell bent doing the work of the republican party." Come on. At least *PRETEND* we're in a representative democratic Republic. They're doing [. . .]
Avatargreginak in reply to Dan Miller
+ I think it is a given that the republicans will not vote for any reform that actually changes much. The R’s are focused on stopping [. . .]
AvatarJaybird in reply to Freddie
+ "I really want no part of the society that you envision. It is not even a bit of an exaggeration to say that you are [. . .]
AvatarJaybird in reply to Katherine
+ With regards to this particular case, I mean. If someone said "the public order" two hours after 9/11, I would have suspected that they were talking [. . .]
+ Thankfully, the power of authority in the US is not absolute; as I've pointed out repeatedly, the law is on my side here. I [. . .]
AvatarDan Miller
+ I'm with Greginak--we don't know what the final product will be. This post from Yglesias closes with a useful quote: "“[alternatives being discussed by [. . .]
+ You're straw-manning me here. That is not my suggested line of redress - for most people, in most circumstances, cooperation is probably best. [. . .]
+ I think liberals want to see certain goals met like universal coverage, people with pre-existing conditions never being denied coverage and cost containment. The question [. . .]

When you say "Medicare," you mean Medicaid, correct? Medicare is for senior citizens, Medicaid is for the poor.

+ When you see the power of authority become absolute in the U.S. let me know. I find alarmism to be one of the most [. . .]
+ So then suggest improvements to the court process, appeals, advocacy, etc. As a lawyer, don't you find it a bit unfortunate that screaming at cops [. . .]
+ A society in which the power of authority is absolute is a society in which there is no rule of law, just the arbitrary whims [. . .]
+ "Have you ever seen a case where the police were going to arrest somone and their loud protests caused the police to let them go?" Not [. . .]

If that means I believe in the power of authority...then absolutely. I believe in the rule of law and a civil society.

+ And since disordely conduct laws are still upheld in many states with a lower bar than Massachussets, I think you might be too quick to [. . .]
+ Also, again-- the police report is one sides version of a controversial issue. To unquestioningly take the police report at face value when it is [. . .]
+ 10 year-old: “When I get 2 warnings and I’m still bad, I go to timeout.” So you are directly and unapologetically suggesting that the proper attitude [. . .]
+ I'm not suggesting that the right to free speech isn't there...I'm saying that I don't believe that right is coupled with the right to speak [. . .]
AvatarRyan in reply to E.D. Kain
+ I don't know. This isn't exactly any loopier than believing the Earth is 6,000 years old (or 10,000 or whatever), or that climate change [. . .]
+ If that's the society in which you wish to live, then start a movement to repeal the First Amendment. I for one would also [. . .]
+ I'm not skewing the facts at all - giving a name is a far cry from providing identification, which is what Gates was demanding. [. . .]
+ I guess that's where we'll just have to agree to disagree and put this to bed Mark. I prefer to live in a society where [. . .]
+ Is it so difficult to comprehend that a person would be reasonably agitated if they were being questioned for burglarizing their own home? Actually, yeah. [. . .]
+ Employers /= the government. The First Amendment only applies to the latter, not the former. Disorderly conduct laws are usually perfectly constitutional on [. . .]
+ Speech is restricted in any number of settings on any given day. It's done through providing choices and consequences. Your employer cannot stop you from [. . .]
+ This: "Conservatism in a nutshell seems to be: government is bad, unless a government official has a gun, in which case they are good and should [. . .]