sotd test

The posts in play...

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a quote for the middle of the afternoon
(29)
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Certainty About the Law
(31)
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left conservatism revisited
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Torture (II)
(14)
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Comment of the Day
(1)
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On drawing attention to that which you despise.
(6)
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The Problem with the Tea Parties
(26)
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torture
(3)
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(Intellectually) Leggy Blond
(19)
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Chef Dave provides today’s recipe…
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The comments...

Avatarbailey

We haven't killed anyone under torture? Are you kidding me? I suggest you google Dilawar or al-Jamadi.

Avatardsimon
+ Saving American lives is what we elect the president for. Hm, I thought the oath was to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United [. . .]
+ Efficacy is the only consideration…right? And even the effectiveness of torture is highly in doubt. I'm sure you can get some reliable information from torture. [. . .]
AvatarE.D. Kain
+ Mark: I just hope that your post doesn't mention anything about losing our souls or honor. These are totally irrelevant and unimportant considerations when discussing the [. . .]

Roque - I'm not going to give anything away just yet, but I wouldn't be too worried about that.

AvatarRoque Nuevo
+ Mark: I just hope that your post doesn't mention anything about losing our souls or honor. These are arguments suitable for political campaigns. One has [. . .]
AvatarRoque Nuevo
+ Mark: Do attacks on our embassies and Naval vessels count as attacks on US soil? How about the '93 WTC bombing? But there weren't any [. . .]
+ Roque - credit where it's due. I did appreciate your humility on that issue. My response to that specific question is in the [. . .]
AvatarWill

I really enjoyed reading this post, E.D.

AvatarSteven Donegal
+ "Torture is a difficult subject." No it's not. Torture is a very easy subject--civilized people don't do it. It's the rationalizations for torture that [. . .]

Oops - this wasn't supposed to be published yet. Hiding it now till this afternoon...

Avatarmatoko_chan
+ Who then is free? The wise man who can govern himself. Your own safety is at stake when your neighbors house is in flames. One wanders to [. . .]
AvatarCascadian
+ There may be a time morally where one must sacrifice the queen. However, for the move to be completed the queen must exit [. . .]
AvatarE.D. Kain

Aaaaah...I want a baby nun puppy, too!

AvatarRoque Nuevo
+ ED Kain: "The whole due process thing" and the "innocent until proven guilty thing" are about the fourteenth amendment. This applies to US citizens. Obviously. We're [. . .]
+ Roque: There are a number of immediate red flags that pop up about Thiessen's claims, not least of which is that they are unfalsifiable. We [. . .]
AvatarWill
+ Danilo - Honestly, I hardly think anyone here at the League is guilty of over-romanticizing the United States or its history. My point was simply that [. . .]
AvatarRoque Nuevo
+ Thanks for mentioning me here, Mark. In fact, you showed me how difficult it is to speculate about the law for a non-lawyer and therefore [. . .]
AvatarRoque Nuevo
+ ChrisWWW: How does the Thiessen article change anything? Thiessen is hardly a unbiased observer, and all he can do is make vague assertions about the effectiveness [. . .]
Avatarmatoko_chan
+ Sign me up. Anyone that thinks America is not part of the global community should research Operation Ajax and its contribution to our current Iranian problems. Actions [. . .]
AvatarDanilo
+ Maybe Americans will finally take off the rose-colored glassed with which their view their (our) country, as if it were the only one with a [. . .]
AvatarJaybird
+ Perhaps Obama will surprise me. Perhaps it will turn out that, say, the people who did these things will be prosecuted. Perhaps we will have [. . .]
+ If you're in the mainstream in a relevant environment - or at least think you are - complaining loudly about the folks on the fringe [. . .]
+ Jaybird, I appreciate the impulse that drives you to find false equivalences between sides on a political argument. Our media does it, Ralph Nader does, I [. . .]
AvatarJaybird

Sure. And, much like whatshername that mother of that dead guy, Glenn will turn from "principled critic" to "moonbat".

Watch.

AvatarWill

Then, quite frankly, we're fucked.

AvatarCascadian

And if torture becomes part of our national history, and in some circles identity?

Avatarmatoko_chan

Did you see that Palin tv interview....where she was asked .....just who are these "elites"?
Her answer-- "anyone that thinks they are better than you."

+ E.D. Kain + Sonny Bunch, The UN Convention Against Torture, which the US signed onto in 1994, says: No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war [. . .]
Avatarmatoko_chan

E.D. .......here is why the Palin rallies made us so uncomfortable.
I suspect.
Read through the comments.
Inferiority complex.

Jaybird,
Significant voices on the political left have already displayed the ability to disagree with Obama on principled issues.

Avatarmatoko_chan
+ I dig Manzi's game theoretic approach. Given that human decisionmaking is an emotioncharged process, and that human empathy is distributed over a likely gaussian [. . .]
AvatarChris Dierkes
+ N A, great comment. still chewing on it. i think your point about the simple reality of large-scale as an outgrowth of the technology [. . .]
Avatarmatoko_chan

The single redeeming virtue of this add campaign is that it has spawned many hilarious parodies.

AvatarJaybird
+ Ask a barber if you need a haircut. Go to 20 barbers and ask them. Let me know how many say you can wait a [. . .]
AvatarJaybird
+ It depends on whether Obama's CIA finds itself in a situation where it has to engage in the same thing. We'll see people explaining how extraordinary [. . .]
+ Then there's the whole "due process" thing; the whole "innocent until proven guilty" aspect of all of this. Maybe there are different circumstances in [. . .]
Avatargreginak

well if people actually believe the we need to torture to help them idea of the dofus quoted above we are screwed.

AvatarCascadian
+ Haven't people died in detention in the black sites? Are we really quibling over one technique for one prisoner? There is little reason [. . .]
Avatargreginak
+ fine say you don't think there should be bailouts. but you then need to add what you think the consequences would be. because there have [. . .]
AvatarJaybird
+ Did Obama increase Bush's deficit? Would it be possible/coherent to say "he shouldn't have made stuff worse"? How about, like, the bailouts? Would it have been possible/coherent [. . .]
+ But the thing is, Sonny - regardless of the moral/utilitarian calculus, the law doesn't make such distinctions. I'd also add that under the Bybee [. . .]
+ Appreciate the kind words, Mark. I wanted to clarify one point on my own thinking about waterboarding. I think that waterboarding falls into a very [. . .]
+ Indeed, John, indeed. The thing about the waterboarding in particular, though, is that the Bybee memo makes pretty clear waterboarding someone just a handful [. . .]
+ Another key point that Sonny's analysis glosses over is that these things weren't done on their own: there was a torture program that was approved [. . .]
+ How will we spin this myth together? How will we hand this story down? If the techniques remain controversial, then we’ll probably see several myths [. . .]