commenter-thread

The people saying that the cops were trying "medical treatment" were the cops there who seem to be discussing that very thing. That's why they had that little exchange about the best way to orient Floyd. They do things like that when awaiting the EMT's, and they ignore people who are wacked out of their minds. They do it with drunks all the time.

"Sir, are you going to vomit in my cruiser?! Okay, I'm gonna hold you like this till you're done puking." Holding someone in a particular position is not exactly "medical treatment", it's something they can do to keep people from drowning, choking, bleeding out, etc.

Are you guys determined that black people ODing on heroin must be allowed to die? I'm not sure that's a good hill to defend.

So when someone is OD'ing, the police shouldn't be allowed to give them Narcan without their permission? Wouldn't that be negligent homicide?

Floyd was saying he couldn't breathe before they even put him in the patrol car, when he was standing up. He was saying it after they took him out of the patrol car. It had nothing to do with the knee because he was saying it even after Chauvin was holding him down. He couldn't breathe because he had overdosed on fentanyl, not because he was on the ground.

Just because a bystander doesn't understand what's going on doesn't mean we should accept his narration like he was Leonard Nimoy describing an alien autopsy.

You could provide the same ignorant narration of a lifeguard hold used to get a drowning swimmer back to shore. "OMG! Bro! You're choking that dude out! Let him go bro! Are you a racist?! You're murdering that swimmer! Let go of his neck bro!" The lifeguard gets the swimmer to shore and then you hear "Bro! Why are you beating on that guy's chest! You're going to give him a heart attack bro! You done choked him out in the water. Hey everybody, that lifeguard is killin' that man! Why don't somebody stop him?! See! That guy ain't breathin', bro. You feel proud of yourself? You killed that man!" And then boom, the mob puts the lifeguard on trial for murder - because they listened to a moron narrate events.

I ran across it yesterday at Heavy.com, but didn't dig any deeper. CNN mentioned yesterday that new videos had emerged, which likely refers to the same raw sources.

I haven't seen a mention of it since then, but I also haven't looked. If no news sources are talking about it, either the Heavy story can't be backed up or it so confounds the media narrative that they're still trying to cope with the implications.

How much pressure was he applying? What had he been told by the first responders on the front lines of the heroin epidemic? What had he learned in his experience dealing with people who'd OD'd?

If the video evidence of this new narrative is accurate, a jury wouldn't even convict on negligent homicide, much less murder two.

Aside from that, if the new story hold up, it means all this violence, looting, arson, and murder was because a police officer tried to save his friend, and a bunch of people went crazy over a video clip they didn't understand in the least. There are no police reforms that will prevent that from recurring.

They were waiting on the EMT's. If they wanted to take him to jail, they wouldn't have taken him out of the back of their police car, which is where he was prior to the clip everyone was showing you.

The exchange between Chauvin and the other officer was about how best to deal with someone who was OD'ing. One officer thought putting Floyd on his side was best, which would help with choking, while Chauvin said that keeping him on his stomach would help with seizures.

Notice that this conversation is in an entirely different universe than what everybody is protesting about, where officers try to murder black people - just because white supremacy, etc.

This is a sharp dogleg turn that's going to throw many people completely out of the vehicle!

The trouble with your arguments is that apparently Chauvin is on camera saying exactly that in reply to his fellow officer asking him why he didn't roll Floyd on his side. Even if he was 100% wrong, it destroys the murder case because it provides evidence that Chauvin was trying to help Floyd by doing exactly what we saw on the one camera view.

You could have video of a policeman butchering someone's neck with a knife, and a photo of a body with a knife wound to the neck, but if you have a tape where the cop is telling his fellow cop "I have to perform an emergency tracheotomy!", you will never get a murder conviction, at least not without a tape of the cop's laughing about how they say "tracheotomy" whenever they murder somebody.

Derek Chauvin did not know that Floyd had fentanyl in his system.

Yes, he likely did, since he'd been speaking to him and the other's who were in the vehicle with Floyd. Chauvin had known Floyd for years, so it's very likely they had some initial discussions.

One of the cops suggested rolling Floyd over on his side, which is another standard response for someone who is overdosing, to keep them from choking if they vomit. There is no other reason an officer would suggest doing that. If they didn't think Floyd was OD'ing, they'd have just put him in the back of the patrol car and taken him downtown. In fact, they'd already tried that with Floyd. That hadn't gone well, possibly because Floyd had some kind of seizure while he was in the back seat, which is why they pulled him back out of the patrol car and put him on the ground.

Note that this new narrative makes sense of the various actions we see in the tape, whereas the "let's just kill this guy on camera because he's black" doesn't really make sense at all.

That provides Chauvin's defense attorney a very strong and compelling story, one that seems far more likely than the prosecutor's version of events. This new version would also comport with the first prosecutor saying he didn't see any grounds for any charges against Chauvin at all.

If Chauvin did tell his fellow officer that he was holding Floyd on his stomach so he didn't go into seizures, as another video seems to indicate, the murder case will collapse. At most you'd have a policeman who relied on his personal experience with drug overdoses and took the wrong actions while waiting for EMT's to arrive. Severe respiratory depression and seizures are known effects of a fentanyl overdose, and Floyd had fentanyl in his system. Floyd was also complaining of breathing difficulties long before the officers placed him on the ground.

If the jury so finds, Minneapolis and other cities will of course burn down yet again.

Well, the mayor LA promised some sweeping reforms, such as requiring cops to intervene if another cop is using excessive force or acting inappropriately, and ensuring that all police are free to disobey orders they feel are unwarranted, and free to report the conduct of other officers.

Then some police leaders in LA pointed out that the mayor was conning the protesters, because LA cops already had all that. But I'll give the mayor points for buying off the crowds with promises of something they were just too dumb to know they already had. :)

I figure we'll get lots of reforms so we can feel morally superior, while the poor communities get overrun with crime and skyrocketing murder rates, just like Baltimore. We'll blame the chaos on nebulous unconscious racism or the legacy of one thing or another, and just look the other way as the meth and fentanyl and blood keep on flowing, happy that Asian cops are no longer being accused of racism.

Hot take: "Well, from many of the videos, the cops have been assaulting elderly white people, young white people, and middle aged white people. New York just suspended two officers for assaulting an elderly white man for no reason at all. He was there, alone, so they pushed him and he cracked his skull! We need to tear down the anti-white police culture and get them to focus on actual criminals! Just today Joe Biden said that 10 to 15% of the population just aren't good people, and I think we can all guess (*looks at Census Bureau data*) who he's talking about *wink wink*."

Ya gotta love the gaffe machine. ^_^

The riots have been presenting a counter narrative, where your last sentence would be rewritten as "Minorities are acting like cops have always told us they'll act without a firm police presence."

The problem with the protests and riots is that they completely dominate the video coverage, and they constantly present evidence of that counter-narrative, reinforcing it over and over when it should not exist at all.

If the evidence does end up showing that Chauvin was actually trying to help Floyd, there will be lots of egg on lots of faces, and lots of people who will sit back and think it doesn't matter what we do to reform policing because the looters are always going to make up some excuse to go looting.

This is why I've said the riots are setting race relations back by many decades. A lot of people at home might be concluding something entirely different about events than what the media, politicians, and celebrities want them to think. A significant number of them might be sitting in their recliner, watching the news, and saying "Archie Bunker was right about everything!"

Other video angles and sources have come out, and reportedly, in one Chauvin replies to his partner who'd said "Why don't you roll him on his side" by saying he was holding Floyd on his stomach like that so he didn't go into seizures.

If true, that completely destroys both the case and the narrative.

I would look into the types of crimes that dropped. It could be that people didn't even bother reporting many crimes because it was pointless.