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AvatarComments by Chip Daniels in reply to George Turner*

On “The Turning of the Narrative

" doesn't get picked up."

This is a spectacular claim!

Walk us through how this happens. Start with the fact that there are an equal number of videos of white people being mistreated by the police, then explain how it is that they don't go viral.

Is there some conspiracy at work? Or is it that a video of a white person being suffocated by a cop is just not interesting to anyone?

Virtually every black person has a story to tell of mistreatment by police; Either they themselves, or a friend or family member.
How many people here at OT have a story like that? How many white people have a story like that?

You need to come up with some plausible theory to explain the yawning gap between your narrative and everyone else's.


First, why do you accept that "90-95% of them will be in the process of killing or trying to kill people"?
Who told you that, and what makes you think this source was reliable?

Second, if your argument is that the number of outrageous police misconduct isn't unevenly distributed among black people then logically we should be seeing a lot more viral videos of white people being similarly treated.

Yet we aren't. How do you explain this discrepancy between your theory and the evidence in front of us?

Third, how to explain that Central Park woman's taunt that she was going to tell the 911 operator that a "black man was threatening" her?
If your theory is true, this shouldn't happen because it wouldn't hold any force or effect.

How do you explain this?

You keep advancing a theory that is contradicted by evidence.


Statistics alone can't accurately explain the reality.

Consider the Central Park incident, and imagine if there was no video.

It very likely would have become a statistic of "Violent Black Man subdued, shot by police."

In almost all police encounters with civilians, it is the police who frame and shape the story of who did what.

It isn't that statistics are useless. Its that they need to be matched by people's eyewitness stories and other data before we can make accurate claims about history.


Roger was no angel, he hung with a bad crowd.


Oh, a famous person, you say?

Well then, let the squealing continue.


Compare the squealing when it is a rich white man:

“A SWAT team, searching the house, scaring his wife, scaring his dogs—it was completely unnecessary,” Stone’s attorney said. “A telephone call would have done the job, and he would have appeared. Mr. Stone has nothing to hide.”

The arrest operation drew scrutiny on social media—even from President Trump, who said “Border Coyotes, Drug Dealers and Human Traffickers are treated better..."

To the tough guy talk when it is a poor brown person:
“When you guys put somebody in the car and you’re protecting their head, you know, the way you put their hand over?” Trump said, miming the physical motion of an officer shielding a suspect’s head to keep it from bumping against the squad car.

“Like, don’t hit their head, and they just killed somebody — don’t hit their head,” Trump continued. “I said, you can take the hand away, okay?”


If the cops treated everyone they way they treat those guys in Michigan, yes, parity would be lovely.

But remember, the dis-parity exists at every level of how the police interact with black and white people.
How they decide to pull over; who they decide to cite; who they decide to search; who they decide to escalate with; who is arraigned, or sentenced.

At every interaction, how the government treats you depends highly on what race and class you belong to.

Its almost fair to say that we have multiple governments- One type of restrained and limited government that handles people like Mike Flynn and Roger Stone , another indifferent but fundamentally fair government that handles people like Chip, then yet another brutal and oppressive government that handles people like George Floyd.


The cops aren't killing unarmed people.
They are killing unarmed black people.

This is a critical distinction.


"The government" peacefully tolerates white men with guns rushing into the Legislature to demand that restaurants be reopened.

"The government" kills black men who have no weapons or pose any threat.

Something tells me the operative word here isn't "government".


Trump tells police not to worry about injuring suspects during arrests

Message received.


As with the past 3,497 cases like this, we need to keep stressing that:

1. This was not an isolated case, but a continuation of a pattern;
2. The pattern of police violence is disproportionately inflicted upon minority groups;
3. A large percentage of Americans are accepting of the pattern.

On “Apologia of Human Nature: Charlatans, Saints, Hoffer, and Burt Likko’s Query

Religious evangels are to theologians what diet pill salesmen are to medical nutritionists.

Which is to say, the most enthusiastic proponents speak in terms of certitude and inerrancy, while those who are the source of their knowledge speak in more measured terms, and are able to revise their answers based on new discoveries of fact.

And in theological circles, "I'm so sorry, I didn't realize you were fully human" is one such new fact that can overturn previous pronouncements as is, "Oops, we were so blinded by our anger and fear we burned people to death who were innocent."

On “Hydroxychloroquine, COVID Truthers, Trump and Science

No, it is already demonstrated that Trump is a habitual liar.

It's demonstrated that he was jabbering foolishly without knowing anything of what he was talking about.

And by this comment you are demonstrating the nonchalance and blithe disregard for consequences that we have been complaining about.

What the President did was reckless and foolish and caused chaos and uncertainty across the world in a time when the health of 300 million people rely on accurate and honest information.

It wasn't an honest misstatement, or even slight exaggeration. It wasn't a statement made in good faith and sincere intention, it was a lie made with the intention for personal gain and aggrandizement.

And when people defend him by downplaying it as trivial foolishness, this aids and abets the lying and chaos.


I also see a sense of vindication, though I don’t have any examples at the ready.

Allow me.

This was a case of a known habitual liar making a claim that even at the moment he said it was highly doubtful.
The village of idiots instantly brayed for the miracle elixir, depriving those who actually needed it of its use and scorned anyone who appealed to expert opinion.

Then actual scientists demonstrated that the liar was in fact lying and the braying village of idiots were in fact braying idiots.

That the experts really are experts and are to be trusted more than game show hosts.

I feel very vindicated, yea, even unto glee.

On “Some Potentially Very Good News

And, you know, when you say “per capita,” there’s many per capitas. It’s, like, per capita relative to what? But you can look at just about any category, and we’re really at the top, meaning positive on a per capita basis, too.


Yes, this is exactly what I am accusing them of doing.

But I guess an open confession is nice for the record.


When people talk about "reopening" they sort of speak about it as if the pandemic is behind us, receding into history.
But it isn't.
Its still very much here, and not declining.

This article in WaPo:
Talks about how even as meatpacking plants struggle to reopen, repeated outbreaks among its workers hamper those efforts and cause production to halt.

This is some governor imposing a lockdown, its the simple fact that when a large number of workers call in sick, you cant function.

Which is prompted by the simple fact that anywhere people gather in close quarters, outbreaks are going to occur because we don't yet have herd immunity or any sort of grasp on how to control the outbreaks other than masks and distancing.

And those 11,000 workers who were unable to work weren't 80 year old geezers in a nursing home; They were young and healthy people. But even for the young, the virus makes it impossible to work or function.

And "people gathering in close quarters" doesn't just happen in some Dickensian slum or sweatshop; Restaurants, bars, theaters, gyms, churches- all of these areas are the perfect breeding ground for an outbreak.

Its true that people won't stand for being in lockdown forever.
But its equally true that the virus just doesn't care.

We had a window in which we could have done what other more successful nations have done to mitigate and control the spread.

But we didn't. And we're still not.

And now the window is closing, and millions of host bodies ripe for infection are gathering together and ringing the dinner bell for the virus to feed.


No amount of revisionist history can exonerate Trump's catastrophic failures.

Even to this very day, he is utterly incapable of leading an effort to control or mitigate the pandemic.

Tens of thousands of Americans are dead as a direct result of his incompetence.


"We can do better going forward."

No we can't. Not until there is a sea change at the national and state leadership level.

"We" could have locked down and instituted a massive program of testing and tracing.
But the President and his party refused to do so.

"We" could have organized a careful science-based distribution of information about best practices.
But the President and his party refused to do so.

"We" could have organized a nationwide distribution of PPE and medical equipment.
But the President and his party refused to do so.

At every step of the way the President and his party, aided by their propaganda media arms, spread chaos and confusion and misinformation.

They have no intention of stopping now, or ever until their hands are forcibly removed from the levers of power.

On “Hydroxychloroquine, COVID Truthers, Trump and Science

And if Chip were to issue tweets repeatedly accusing a specific person of murder, my account would likely be suspended.
But somehow, because it is the President doing it, this becomes acceptable.

On “Harsh Your Mellow Monday: Answer the Question Edition

I'm sure you have all sorts of cogent arguments for why someone else should be the nominee, and I would probably agree with half of them.

But if this gets us a win in November, I (and I suspect about 63 million other Americans) am perfectly fine with that.


Lee the only reason you think Biden is the best candidate is because he gets the most votes, and racks up the most endorsements, and polls the best against Trump and is the one most likely to win in November.

On “From Reason: Jo Jorgensen Wins Libertarian Party Presidential Nomination

College educated white guy #1: "I don't think the Libertarians care much about the concerns of people of color."

College educated white guy #2:"Sure they do! Look at this platform!"

College educated white guy #1: "Wow, you've convinced me!"

I mean, I've actually had this exchange with other liberals who can't figure out why those women in South Carolina are so enamored of Biden as opposed to Bernie/ Harris/Warren/Etc.

What liberals have been forced to accept is what college educated white folks who write blogs and essays think is important to people of color isn't necessarily what they themselves think is important.

On “Harsh Your Mellow Monday: Answer the Question Edition

It's weird for me, as a resident of Los Angeles and California to hear these claims of the Democratic Party not being in touch with some latent majority out there. In this state which is larger than some nations, a state which is as diverse and varied as the entire United States, the Democratic Party is the overwhelming preferred choice.

I get it, that plenty of people in other states prefer the Republicans and sometimes by a lot.

But to make the suggestion that it is the Democrats, and not the Republicans, who are the choice of an increasingly narrow and shrinking demographic pool seems absurd.

*Comment archive for non-registered commenters assembled by email address as provided.