This Time the Debt Limit Fight Scares Me

David Thornton

David Thornton is a freelance writer and professional pilot who has also lived in Georgia, Florida, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Texas. He is a graduate of the University of Georgia and Emmanuel College. He is Christian conservative/libertarian who was fortunate enough to have seen Ronald Reagan in person during his formative years. A former contributor to The Resurgent, David now writes for the Racket News with fellow Resurgent alum, Steve Berman, and his personal blog, CaptainKudzu. He currently lives with his wife and daughter near Columbus, Georgia. His son is serving in the US Air Force. You can find him on Twitter @CaptainKudzu and Facebook.

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20 Responses

  1. Philip H
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    says:

    There’s no one left for Biden to negotiate with. All the “adults” in the republicans party have decided that holding at power they have – after four decades of amassing it – is more important then anything.Report

  2. Saul Degraw
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    says:

    If this were a functioning country, the Republicans would realize that they do not have a majority in the Senate and that they need to come to the negotiating table in good faith and to get things done.

    However, the GOP has been so radicalized and the few remaining “moderates” are more concerned about being primaried from the right than anything else that they are at the Joker “let it burn” stage.Report

    • Philip H in reply to Saul Degraw
      Ignored
      says:

      This about sums it up:

      But the Republicans say they will not agree to any tax hikes of any sort, and the right-wing extremists in the Freedom Caucus have said they would not agree to anything but the bill McCarthy muscled through the House by promising it would never become law. That bill, called Limit, Save, Grow, would cut discretionary government programs by at least 18%—more if Social Security, Medicare, and veterans’ benefits aren’t included. “My conservative colleagues for the most part support Limit, Save, Grow, and they don’t feel like we should negotiate with our hostage,” said right-wing Representative Matt Gaetz (R-FL).

      https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/may-23-2023Report

  3. North
    Ignored
    says:

    A good analysis and generally pretty fair, well done.

    I continue to really feel the gap, here, between what can be publicly seen (and what we, as the public, are meant to see) and what is happening, and being planned, behind the curtains.

    Biden and his crew either are fumbling, completely wrong footed by as simple a thing as the GOP managing to herd their cats enough to pass their deranged ransom list through congress, or they’re planning their messaging very carefully and have a game plan.

    I can’t even begin to guess what is going on inside McCarthy’s weaselly little brain other than a desperate sweaty desire to hang onto his gavel. The wingers in Congress, on the other hand, obviously think they can put the blame on Biden if we blow past the debt limit and the public will buy it. That seems deranged considering they’re the ones on record constantly saying “capitulate to our nutty demands or we’ll force a default” but maybe the only audience they care about is the right wing media circuits audience.

    And I have no idea where it’s all going to end up.Report

    • Saul Degraw in reply to North
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      says:

      I don’t think Biden is messing this up. He is doing the best he can with a crazy situation. He might not be handling the situation perfectly but I am not sure who could.

      The inmates have taken over the asylum in the GOP and McCarthy is currently too partisan and not scared enough to make a deal that passes with a majority of Democrats and a handful of GOP votes. At best, he knows he will be eaten alive for such an agreement even from his lover.*

      Biden and a lot of Democrats, for better and for worse, have a compulsive need to always appear to be the reasonable adults in the room. This is something we have argued before because I am a lot more hotheaded than you on what I consider bad faith BS arguments and whether to tolerate them and respond with a detailed rebuttal of each bad faith point.

      The GOP in the House and largely everywhere else have become a party of ultras who do not mind causing massive suffering if it means not having to compromise.

      *I am betting it is only a matter of time before we find out McCarthy and MTG are sleeping together.Report

      • North in reply to Saul Degraw
        Ignored
        says:

        I deeply deeply hope ol’ Uncle Joe has a plan and is executing it. I just can’t see any leading indicators. That could be an indication that he’s running a tight strategy and everyone is keeping their yaps shut (this has been a historically tight lipped administration, particularily in contrast to the dairretic once that preceded it) or that silence could be bafflement or quiet panic. I don’t know. I hope, but I don’t have concrete indicators.

        But, agreed, this is a unique situation even compared to 2011.Report

  4. Saul Degraw
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    says:

    There may be a deal: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/25/us/politics/republicans-debt-limit-talks-biden.html

    The compromise, if it can be agreed upon and enacted, would raise the government’s borrowing limit for two years, past the 2024 election, according to three people familiar with it who insisted on anonymity to discuss a plan that was still being hammered out.

    The United States hit the legal limit, currently $31.4 trillion, in January and has been relying on accounting measures to avoid defaulting since then. The Treasury Department has projected it will run out of its ability to pay bills on time as early as June 1.

    In exchange for lifting the debt limit, the deal would meet Republicans’ demand to cut some federal spending, albeit with the help of accounting maneuvers that would give both sides political cover for an agreement likely to be unpopular with large swaths of their base voters.Report

    • North in reply to Saul Degraw
      Ignored
      says:

      Interesting, I didn’t see anything in the article talking about what, even generally, the deal is supposed to be.Report

      • Saul Degraw in reply to North
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        says:

        Creative accounting to save face as far as I can tellReport

        • InMD in reply to Saul Degraw
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          says:

          If that’s the price take it and run then repeal the stupid thing next time there’s a trifecta.Report

          • North in reply to InMD
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            says:

            Yes, with two serious debt limit showdowns in recent times it’s been revealed as a partisan weapon and should be obliterated the next time they have a trifecta. The value of inveigling about it under GOP presidents is nowhere near the peril of how it’s being used under Democratic presidents.Report

        • North in reply to Saul Degraw
          Ignored
          says:

          I’ve heard something along those lines as well. If that is the deal I’d take it in a heartbeat. Republicans can say they forced Biden to pay a “ransom” for the debt ceiling but if it takes a budget showdown and government shutdown off the table in the fall then I’d say that’s a tolerable deal for Joe. If there’s actual permitting reform in it too then that’s a full on win.Report

          • InMD in reply to North
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            says:

            It’s counter intuitive but I think it would end up good for the Biden brand to be seen as having done some ‘deal’ as long as it doesn’t have much substance to it. This whole tactic needs to be taken off the table as soon as possible but the more important near term goal should be for Biden to be looking like a stable, good for business as usual bet for 2024.Report

            • North in reply to InMD
              Ignored
              says:

              Agreed. If the payoff is some spending caps accounting stuff and permitting reform and the return is a debt cap lift through 2024 and a budget showdown and shutdown being off the table for later this year that’s a good deal. The Dems should still knife the heck out of the debt limit the moment they have the votes to do so- either by abolishing it entirely or reviving the Gephardt Rule.Report

          • Philip H in reply to North
            Ignored
            says:

            There’s still a lot of sabre rattling from the Freedom Caucus and if McCarthy can’t get them in line there’s not going to be a deal.Report

            • InMD in reply to Philip H
              Ignored
              says:

              That may not necessarily be true. From this story at WaPo:

              “The extent and ferocity of the conservative revolt could prove crucial to the ongoing debt ceiling standoff, as well as McCarthy’s future. But it was not exactly yet clear how many GOP lawmakers shared the objections voiced by Norman and Good. Since the beginning of the negotiations, McCarthy has been widely assumed to be able to lose the roughly three dozen members of the far-right House Freedom Caucus and still manage to pass the debt ceiling increase and retain his position as speaker. If he loses several dozen additional House Republican lawmakers, though, both the deal — and his grip on power — could be on shaky ground.

              “These guys were never going to vote for it, so the question becomes how many of them you lose,” said one GOP strategist, speaking on the condition of anonymity to frankly describe internal dynamics.”

              https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/05/26/debt-ceiling-deal/Report

            • North in reply to Philip H
              Ignored
              says:

              McCarthy’s own job might be in peril but if he produces anything that Biden and Jeffries supports and he personally endorses and schedules a vote on it the Dems will vote for it en masse and only a handful of GOP moderates would be needed to bring it across the finish line.Report

  5. North
    Ignored
    says:

    Hmmm so more details are coming into view.
    A- Debt ceiling lifted so it won’t be hit again before the 2024 election.
    1-Some work requirements added onto SNAP recipients who’re 50-55 (the previous cutoff was 50).
    2-Budget caps for spending that basically holds spending levels on non defense items at around the current level. In nominal dollars that’s a spending cut as well because of inflation. They gave Biden the numbers he asked for on military spending.
    3-A rule that if congress doesn’t pass their 12 budget bills then a continuing resolution automatically kicks in with a 1% across the board cut.
    4- Of Bidens 80 million dollar boost to IRS funding the GOP clawed 10 million back and diverted it to other things.
    5-Remaining Covid relief funding is clawed back.

    Noodling it all over it’s not terrible news for Biden. Lifting the debt ceiling issue (A) through the next election is good news for him. You can see where his messaging is going to aim and has already been aimed in claiming that this was a budget deal and the debt ceiling lift got tacked onto it.

    The areas where Biden unambiguously had to give up ground are 1 and 4. I am sure the left is going to absolutely howl about the SNAP work requirements but compared to what the GOP was trying to force through it is peanuts. It’s ironic that the other big policy “win” the GOP got is IRS funding cuts which will increase the deficit but, as usual, all that truly matters to the GOP is larding benefits onto their wealthy backers not actual deficit reduction and in theory funding cuts to the IRS will help the wealthy cheat more on their taxes. On the other hand, Biden gets 70 billion through to the IRS still and that is a lot of scratch. Sure, he got a 12.5% haircut off it but the Dems lost congress. A 12.5% cut off an 80 billion dollar funding boost for the IRS isn’t a win but as losses go it’s basically a dent in the car. This theme echoes through the whole deal- the Dems got really big funding levels for stuff they wanted when they had the trifecta and the cuts that are being forced through here are pretty modest. Also the left isn’t the right- we shouldn’t want spending increases just for the sake of spending increased and macro-economically reining in the general numbers is a good prescription for cooling off inflation more.

    Biden’s obviously going to point at the budget deal and say “this is how I didn’t pay ransom”. Whether the media fish-faces play ball on this or not it is a modest “win” for the Dems for it to go down this way. On the face of it one can say “oh no, spending cuts if a budget isn’t passed” but that’s a facile reading. The previous status quos were “if the government doesn’t pass a budget or a continuing resolution then we have a government shut down.” Now the new status will be “if the government doesn’t pass a budget or a continuing resolution a continuing resolution with a 1% cut kicks in automatically.” That’s a significant improvement from Biden’s pov because it means no further market roiling fooferaws before the election along with a very small spending trim that is, again, not terrible medicine in our current macro-economic environment. This isn’t 2011.

    So, did Biden “knuckle under”? I would argue “no” because he got more than a debt ceiling lift in exchange for the cuts he agreed to.
    Did the GOP “win”? I’d concede “yes” but can we be real here? Do we think a deal along these lines wouldn’t have been obtained had the GOP raised the debt ceiling and then fought in a normal budgeting process in the fall? The only reason the GOP has resorted to debt ceiling extortion attempts is because they’ve realized that they get blamed if the shut the government down. I just don’t think the GOP got anything more from this conflict than the policy spoils they are entitled to for winning congress (barely).

    Permitting reform didn’t make it into this deal- not because both sides didn’t want it but because it’s too complicated and big to stuff into a bill that needs to be written at lightning speed. That’s a pity but also a correct decision. The parameters that have been discussed can very plausibly pass through a bipartisan bill independent of the debt ceiling/budget dealings.

    Will McCarthy be able to hang onto his job with this bill? Who knows? It’ll depend on where the talking heads within the right wing media bubble decide to go. But moreover, who fishin’ cares? I don’t. If the winger nutbars come for him Jeffries can provide enough votes to keep Kev afloat long enough to ink the deal- after that? Let him roast.

    The moment the Dems get a trifect again the debt limit has to go. This is two times now the GOP has used it for extortion attempts and you can literally see the Dems getting sick of it in real time. The debt limit survived last time by the skin of Sinmanchin’s teeth and neither of them are rising lights in the party. When the opportunity comes- they will kill it and good riddance when they do.

    Big picture- not a horrible outcome for Biden considering that the GOP took congress. If they can land this turkey it’ll be some solid government work and eliminates a lot of potential drama before the 2024 campaign.Report

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