She Might Have Become The Governor

Burt Likko

Pseudonymous Portlander. Pursuer of happiness. Bon vivant. Homebrewer. Atheist. Recovering Republican. Recovering Catholic. Recovering divorcé. Editor-in-Chief Emeritus of Ordinary Times. Relapsed Lawyer, admitted to practice law (under his real name) in California and Oregon. There's a Twitter account at @burtlikko, but not used for posting on the general feed anymore. House Likko's Words: Scite Verum. Colite Iusticia. Vivere Con Gaudium.

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28 Responses

  1. Philip H says:

    The Democratic Party, yanking defeat from the jaws of victory since . . . checks note . . . always.

    You could change this to Louisiana, insert Governor for Secretary of State, and it would largely be the same thing.

    Idiots.Report

    • Damon in reply to Philip H says:

      100 dollar bet: “You could change this to ANY STATE IN THE UNION and it would largely be the same thing.”

      Corruption gonna corrupt.

      You’re right Burt. Better to stay away.Report

    • Saul Degraw in reply to Philip H says:

      In Oregon? What are Democrats going to lose? The Democrats have been the majority party in the Oregon legislature since 2007. They have held the governorship since 1987. The last Republican to win a state-wide race in Oregon was Gordon Smith in 2002.

      No offense but I think you are so in denial of wanting to admit most of the people around you are dyed in the wool reactionaries that will never even get close to voting for a left leaning candidate that you take all this rage out on the Democrats.

      There are problems with one-party states as Greg notes but it is not on the Democrats here. It is on the Republicans for going full fascist authoritarian.Report

      • Philip H in reply to Saul Degraw says:

        No offense but I think you are so in denial of wanting to admit most of the people around you are dyed in the wool reactionaries that will never even get close to voting for a left leaning candidate that you take all this rage out on the Democrats.

        UM no Saul – these were unforced errors of a type that Democrats repeatedly commits. Those of use paeons in government have to sit through annual ethic training that makes sure we understand how and why this sort of thing is not a good idea. Last I checked, lawyers at bar had similar continuing ed requirements. That aside – this is perhaps legal but legitimately stupid. And democrats do this sort of stuff all the damn time.

        And no – getting this right wouldn’t have ever gotten any of the republicans or MAGA’s I’m surrounded by to vote for Democrats. That’s no reason to screw this up however.Report

      • Jaybird in reply to Saul Degraw says:

        The rightmost guy in San Fran yelling at the leftmost guy in Mississippi.

        Who has the better claim to the moral high ground?Report

        • InMD in reply to Jaybird says:

          In fairness I think Saul comes off as a very moderate San Franciscan. The right most guy in SF is almost certainly a naturalized American citizen born in China tearing his hair out about his middle schooler not being allowed to do algebra and the heroin addicts passed out in front of the small retail business he runs.

          Philip however is absolutely the most left wing person in Mississippi.

          (note: this comment is in jest)Report

  2. Greg In Ak says:

    States with only one strong or meaningful party are always bad for corruption.Report

  3. DensityDuck says:

    I dunno. The only thing that seems like favor-trading here is the consulting job, and I’m actually willing to take Fagan at her word when she says that she talked to someone who told her there was enough separation between her public-service role and the actual mechanics of permit-giving that she could work on the latter in her private capacity. (It’s not like the Secretary Of State could go out there and grab files off Code Enforcement’s desk and stamp them “APPROVED”.) Probably would’ve been a good idea to get something like that in writing, but that’s the kind of knowledge you gain by experience (mostly of getting your ass burned for not having done it.)

    You’re right that having a High Muckamuck’s name on the paper would maybe affect people’s reasoning in judgement-call situations or change the prioritization of application review. But it’s also like you’re saying you consider Oregon’s part-time government to actually be a full-time government with a part-time salary, because if you consider Government Officials to be inherently influential, then how could a government official being involved in something not influence that thing to its benefit?

    I’d also ask what demonstrable harms came from the Oregon Secretary Of State having a focus on streamlining marijuana-dispensary regulations versus some other area of their mandate. Were there tasks going wanting?Report

    • DensityDuck in reply to DensityDuck says:

      This is also just getting back to the thing people do these days where they talk about “consuming”, as though everything that happens just uncontrollably becomes a part of us and influences us and can no longer ever be separated from us. “Fagan consumed the donations,” they say, “and therefore she cannot not have acted in favor of these people.”

      Which is why there’s this Government Crisis, this lack of Adults In The Room. Because what we used to call “good government” we now call “corruption”, because everyone’s decided it’s impossible to take someone’s money and not get their hand up your ass puppeting you.

      Which is your own fault, really; because it was very chic, for a while, to claim that thus-and-so politician getting a donation from the NRA meant they’d been BOUGHT by the NRA, to get that lovely wonderful goodbellyfeel moist flaky moral-high-ground frisson going. But now that’s just what everyone thinks. You consumed someone’s money, that means they’re part of you now.Report

  4. Michael Cain says:

    One of the things I noticed when I worked as a non-partisan staffer for the Colorado General Assembly, was that the part-time nature of the job and the pay level had a pronounced effect on who could be a member. Among the groups that were over-represented were: small business owners who were successful enough that they could leave someone else in charge for four months of the year; professionals in partnerships where the partnership deemed having a Representative/Senator to have value; retirees; people who were being supported by a spouse. Groups that had essentially no representation included hourly wage slaves and young professionals starting a career.

    In many/most states, it is inevitable that the legislature will be older, whiter, wealthier, and more conservative than their constituency.Report

  5. Jesse says:

    Yup – we’re in a bad loop here w/ politics – everybody hates politicians, so they don’t want to raise the pay of politicians. So, you either get very rich people as politicians or people who could be better off in private practice, openly corrupt people, or ideologues who are OK w/ making less to push their ideals, and sometimes the latter becomes either the former or very corrupt, and so the cycle continues.

    Like, there are probably hundreds, if not thousands of of C-suite executives earn more than the POTUS does, even if you take in account the perks the POTUS gets, because it turns out, you know who also gets a lot of perks? C-Suite Executives.

    The issue is, I actually think raising legislative/judicial/executive pay is something you could actually get say, the Cato Institute, Heritage Foundation, American Prospect, Matt Bruenig’s think tank, The New Republic, The Atlantic, and The NYT all on board for, as long as you probably actually made it more difficult to become in hock to various interests, like some current SC Justices.

    But, the actual voters would despise it, even though it would be good in the long-term.Report

  6. LeeEsq says:

    Many people really do not like the idea of people selecting politics as their job/profession in the same way that other people select medicine or being a chef. As a result we don’t pay politicians enough for people to survive on their salary to predictable results. You either get politicians who don’t need the salary because they are wealthy or are willing to engage in some light to heavy corruption to survive or are, very very rarely, willing to be poor for the cause. Just pay politicians a proper salary and accept that the best political systems involve realizing some people are going to do politics as their career.Report

    • PD Shaw in reply to LeeEsq says:

      I don’t get this critique at least as applied here. Median household income in Oregon is $70k, which means a lot of medianhouseholds with two-incomes are composed of individuals making less than half of the $77k she was making. What should an Secretary of State get paid?

      Does this problem go away if the SoS is paid $220k? I doubt it. Illinois pays its politicians more and has more corruption problems, many of which aren’t about greed for money, as opposed to greed for power/influence. Illinois legislators are part-time and get paid a minimum $85,000 per year (recently raised) plus a $150 per day per diem. AFAIK most IL lawmakers have income from other sources, often working well in tandem with the influence gained as an elected official, such as law firm specializing in tax appeals.

      For me, I think median household income would constitute a fair state government salary, particularly in light of benefits from insurance, pensions, and the intangibles of fame, power, influence . . .Report

    • Michael Cain in reply to LeeEsq says:

      I wonder if the complaints have gotten more pronounced as term limits really began to bite. Hardly anyone complains about John Doe being the Representative from some fairly static district for 30 years. The ones that bother people are the guy who does three terms as a state representative, then two terms as a state senator, then two terms as a county commissioner, then starts looking hard at becoming a member of Congress. With a move or two to be in the new district, and a questionable redistricting that ran an odd appendage out to include his house.

      Anecdotes are not data, but… Ernie Chambers grew up in Omaha’s Near North Side (heavily Black) neighborhood. He was the state senator (unicameral) for that district from 1970 to 2020 except when he was term-limited out. When term limits passed in Nebraska, he joked, “They’ve finally found a way to keep me from getting elected.” When he was term-limited out the first time, he sat out a term and then crushed the incumbent who had replaced him in the primary. In 2020 he was term-limited out of the same office for the second time, which may be unique in the country. No one has ever complained about Ernie choosing politics as a career.Report

  7. Saul Degraw says:

    1. Point of Order, what is the stance of the Oregon GOP on recreational narcotic legalization? Isn’t it a bit silly to just theorize that businesses would want to support the GOP for being against regulation? Why do we continue to have this imaginary version of the GOP in our heads post-Trump? Will people just collapse into unbreakable depression if they can’t have a fantasy sugarland version of the GOP?

    2. As Jesse points out, the voters hate the idea of raising pay for politicians in many states and have outdated notions of the part-time and “yeoman” politician who does his or service and then goes back to private life. Alaska, California, Hawaii, Illinois, Massachusetts, Michigan, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin are the only states in the Union with full-time legislatures. This is shockingly small. It is also unlikely to change.

    3. As Greg points out, the issue with one-party states is that it tends to eventually lead to corruption at one point or another here. The problem is that we do not live in an ideal world where both parties vie for the center. We live in a world where the GOP has become a fully or nearly theocratic party dedicated to owning the libs and stopping the woke* and where the Democratic Party represents everyone else. This is not the fault of the Democrats or the Democratic Party.
    The thing to do here is to compel the GOP back to sanity but no one has hope of that happening and also does not want to admit it is not going to happen. So we have situations where people blame the Democrats for not being better because their sibling is a heroin-addicted ne’er do facing multiple paternity suits.

    *https://www.axios.com/2023/04/21/poll-republican-voters-trump-desantis-2024

    “But 55% of Republicans say that fighting “woke ideology in our schools and businesses” is more important than protecting entitlement programs from cuts, per the Journal poll.”Report

    • Jaybird in reply to Saul Degraw says:

      From Section III, Point #2: Another plausible theory would be: “It’s Oregon. There aren’t any Republicans holding enough power here to be worth trying to buy.”

      But to tackle the idea that supporting the GOP for being “against regulation” needs unpacking.

      Does wanting “less regulation” count as being “against regulation”? If the regulation is crooked and weighted to help connected people without creating a level playing field, I could see being against that regulation without the other option being pure anarchy.

      I would ask “Why not have good legislation instead?”

      Then we could get into how there’s no such thing as good legislation and only trolls would think that there could be good legislation in the real world instead of some shiny fantasy they have where everybody is good, especially politicians.Report

      • Philip H in reply to Jaybird says:

        Does wanting “less regulation” count as being “against regulation”?

        Yes.

        I would ask “Why not have good legislation instead?”

        Then we could get into how there’s no such thing as good legislation and only trolls would think that there could be good legislation in the real world instead of some shiny fantasy they have where everybody is good, especially politicians.

        All legislation was good legislation to the legislators who passed it. That aside, who gets to make this call? What are the criteria? What do we do when they are wrong?Report

        • Jaybird in reply to Philip H says:

          All legislation was good legislation to the legislators who passed it.

          I’m not going to insult your intelligence by believing you meant this.

          That aside, who gets to make this call? What are the criteria? What do we do when they are wrong?

          Who gets to make the call? You mean… officially? Or unofficially?

          Officially, the Judiciary.
          Unofficially, we (like, you and me!) can say “that’s a stupid law that is obviously intended to line the pockets of supporters!”

          We can probably find examples of laws written by lobbyists if we try. Have you ever heard any of the complaints about the tax complexity mentioned in the same breath as Turbotax lobbyists? Do you feel that those complaints are entirely without merit?

          What are the criteria?

          It would change law by law by law. Though I imagine that the big complaints would fit in a particular framework. “This law is unconstitutional” might be one. “This law picks winners/losers!” might be another.

          What do we do when they are wrong?

          Sometimes the laws get challenged.
          Sometimes the laws get rewritten.
          Sometimes the laws get ignored.
          Sometimes the laws get broken.Report

    • Burt Likko in reply to Saul Degraw says:

      OR Republicans like their weed just fine. They like smoking it, they like taxing it. It’s a product here, like any other. What were things like ten, fifteen years ago?.I dunno, I wasn’t here then.Report

      • Jaybird in reply to Burt Likko says:

        The 15 seconds’ worth of research that I did showed that Oregon has a thriving black market, but they have a thriving black market due to Illinois and New York and other not-yet-legal places rather than one that caters to Oregonians because of all of the onerous regulations.

        (Which surprised me, given the costs involved with setting up a dispensary.)Report

      • Damon in reply to Burt Likko says:

        “Oregon Republicans” are not what most people, I presume, would consider “regular republicans”. We are talking about Oregon here–specifically the “wet” side of Oregon. This is similar to Washington State. Wet and Dry areas are (or were) much different. And of course Oregon is “weirder” and WA. But my perspective comes from 1991 ish.Report

    • LeeEsq in reply to Saul Degraw says:

      Based on the responses it is clear that many people prefer to have the fantasy version of the Republicans than deal with the reality of the Republicans.Report