The Nationwide Ground Stop Explained

David Thornton

David Thornton is a freelance writer and professional pilot who has also lived in Georgia, Florida, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Texas. He is a graduate of the University of Georgia and Emmanuel College. He is Christian conservative/libertarian who was fortunate enough to have seen Ronald Reagan in person during his formative years. A former contributor to The Resurgent, David now writes for the Racket News with fellow Resurgent alum, Steve Berman, and his personal blog, CaptainKudzu. He currently lives with his wife and daughter near Columbus, Georgia. His son is serving in the US Air Force. You can find him on Twitter @CaptainKudzu and Facebook.

Related Post Roulette

37 Responses

  1. Philip H says:

    So, from the left hand seat, what’s the solution?Report

  2. Damon says:

    “Although there was some speculation that the outage might have been due to hackers, the White House said that there was no evidence that the problem was related to a cyber attack.” Doubtful anyone would admit was WAS a hacker if it was. Can you imagine the news reports, public reaction? Sure, they might bury the lead 6 months from now on a news day to guarantee it won’t make the headlines.Report

  3. According to Twitter, it’s all Pete Buttigeg’s fault.Report

  4. Doctor Jay says:

    As a private pilot, I will confirm that most NOTAMs look like that, and then there’s the ones that define the NO-FLY zone for presidential visits. They are kind of important…

    As a programmer/systems engineer, I think the solution would be to have not one, but two servers, located in different parts of the country. Both with onsite power backup (I’m sure the single system has that). It should be easy enough for all the receiving software to eliminate duplicates, since they would be exact duplicates.

    Mind you, this would cost money. Of course, not nearly as much money as the mainframes they probably still have cost them once upon a time, but still money.Report

  5. DavidTC says:

    Heaven forbid someone change the term ‘Airmen’ in an extremely confusing government acronym that has literally nothing to do with actual ‘Airmen’, whjch, I remind people, is a rank for members of the Air Force.

    Yes, I know the FAA sometimes likes to calls pilots that, and it’s _incredibly_ stupid. We have a word for pilots: It’s ‘pilots’.

    I’m sure you’re trying to imply the renaming was due to some sort of ‘political correctness run amuck’, but ‘Notices to Airmen’ is literally one of the stupidest and most misleading government acronyms I’ve ever seen.

    Oh, but wait, let’s pause for a second. Before we believe the Biden Administration changed this, we should probably remember that conservatives lie about things they complain about, and so…we should probably check if Biden had anything to do with this at all.

    Well, it was changed under the recommendation of the NOTAM Improvement Panel, a panel created in 2018. Okay, but…maybe the FAA has changed that panel direction under Biden’s appointee, or agreed with it only because…no, wait: https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/11/politics/phil-washington-faa-issues/index.html

    Biden has not put someone in place someone to run the FAA. And, yes, his current nominee is bad, I will preemptively agree with that, and he _shouldn’t_ be put in! But that doesn’t change the fact that the person running the agency is not only not a political appointee, but appears to have just agreed to recommendations from a panel that was created by not-Biden…in fact, it was created by a law signed under a Republican Senate and President!

    Why did I even bother to look this information up? Well, because I like pointing out how conservatives are basically making all of their grievances up, in a very fractal way, and even really trivial things like ‘The Biden administration renamed something’, a complaint here that almost seems like a joke and that almost no one should even have an objection to to start with…often turn out not to be true anyway.Report

    • Megan Shemp in reply to DavidTC says:

      Last Night, there was a high-level governmental meeting.
      Spent two hours discussing pronouns.
      One of the participants decided his identity was trans-French.

      This is LESS getting done than under the Trump Administration, when the entire meetings were filled with people discussing “who hates Trump the most.”

      I object to “Nothing Getting Done” under any administration. The Nationwide Ground Stop is less than nothing getting done — it is stuff actively going wrong.Report

      • DavidTC in reply to Megan Shemp says:

        Why did you have to ‘discuss’ pronouns instead of just listing them off?

        I ask, pretending that ‘Last Night, there was a high-level governmental meeting.’ is a way that anyone who had actually been involved in a real meeting would phrase things that way, or that you are a real person who actually comments here instead of some weird misinformation trolling.

        But pretending you are: You do realized the Nationwide Ground Stop had literally nothing to do with any of your complaints, and instead is due to failure to actually invest and modernize governmental system? Instead operating outdated tech until it literally broke. I mean, perhaps that is the fault of the Biden administration, but it’s nothing to do with your weird complaints about pronouns.

        And to be clear, the blame probably should go back farther in time, and no I’m _not_ going to blame Trump, despite what DD probably thinks…Trump did something, if only to sign a law to make a panel to create recommendations, which is not really solving the problem but at least is sorta doing something. But clearly the system should have been fixed much, MUCH earlier…just from my brief looking into this, from what others with with actually experience of this have said, the entire NOTAM system has been a mess for _decades_. This is a place where the entire government has ignored very obvious problems for a very very long time.

        But sure, this is somehow the fault of Biden and people talking about pronouns.Report

        • Megan Shemp in reply to DavidTC says:

          Who said I was in the meeting?

          I am not sure why it takes two entire hours to discuss them. It’s certainly not because certain people insist on being addressed as “frog” and “frogself” — the assertion of that identity seemed to take about two minutes, at which point the rest of the room moved on to “talking with anyone else,” perhaps because the resident brainiac had just announced that he would start communicating using the Royal We.

          As I’m not aware of the nature of the meeting, I cannot say whether it had anything to do with the nationwide ground stop (the nature of the outage is not something I am confident about. Certainly not nearly as confident as you seem to be, Mr. Smug). It very well might have been a mitigation meeting to do something about CozyBear — or revenge from Germany or England, both of whom have reason to have us on their hitlist.

          Critiquing the Deep State does not actually mean that I’m upset at your Team.
          Trump’s not at fault for everyone hating him and wasting meeting time on that.
          Biden’s not at fault for everyone doing the pronoun dance.Report

          • DavidTC in reply to Megan Shemp says:

            I am not sure why it takes two entire hours to discuss them. It’s certainly not because certain people insist on being addressed as “frog” and “frogself” — the assertion of that identity seemed to take about two minutes, at which point the rest of the room moved on to “talking with anyone else,” perhaps because the resident brainiac had just announced that he would start communicating using the Royal We.

            Hey, question: How exactly do you know this meeting happened ‘Last night’, and very detailed information about it, but don’t even appear to know the vague topic or even _branch_ of government it was in?

            Indeed, how do you know what ‘entire meetings’ were like under Trump when, again, you don’t even seem to have the vaguest idea of _where_ these meetings were or what they would be about?

            Is it because you are someone with absolutely no connection to the truth at all and are literally just making things up or repeating right-wing talking points you heard?

            Critiquing the Deep State does not actually mean that I’m upset at your Team. Trump’s not at fault for everyone hating him and wasting meeting time on that. Biden’s not at fault for everyone doing the pronoun dance.

            Yeah, see, this site doesn’t actually tolerate people just making things up, even if they pretend to be ‘centrists’ or whatever. (Of course, it sure is weird how both sets of people you have decided to invent criticize would clearly be on the left, despite you _pretending_ otherwise.)

            You’re going to get called out pretty much constantly for this nonsense.Report

            • MS 3.0 in reply to DavidTC says:

              (Not sure why comments aren’t posting. 3.0 is here to save the day!)

              I wasn’t in the meeting. If you listen to my description of the meeting, it should sound an awful lot like “what your local jagoff says to the bartender.” AKA: one person’s perspective that I trust implicitly. If I was the bartender, I wouldn’t be posting this.

              I know what branch of the government my best friend works for. Doesn’t particularly mean I know everyone who attends any given meeting…

              If you want to hear it as “She’s criticizing the Left!” then you haven’t gotten me started on GWB lately… He was a boon to industrial security teams, because he sliced through the FBI and CIA like a knife through hot butter. It was better to be a Known Democrat then, because at least you could be written off. Being a principled Republican just got you fired.Report

          • Burt Likko in reply to Megan Shemp says:

            A teeny bit of googling reveals that “frogself” traces back to an episode of a right-wing comedy and parody show called “Louder with Crowder.” (Recall that Stephen Crowder is the guy sitting at the table in the now much-parodied “Change my Mind” meme, which should give you an idea of how not-seriously you should be taking this guy.)

            Crowder, in turn, seems to have got it from a tweet by Libs of TikTok in September of 2022: https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1566474143939366913?lang=en. While we might choose to concede arguendo that the root video may well have been sincere rather than being itself a parody, it seems fair to say that this is a pretty extreme outlier that was selected for circulation because it appears weird, and not because it is typical of anything.

            If you want to be taken seriously in claiming that this sort of thing is actually being used to gum up the workings of government, please provide a link to an actual video of an actual person actually taking two minutes in an actual meeting of an actual public entity in which this person actually explains the need for others to use “frogself” pronouns.Report

            • MS 3.0 in reply to Burt Likko says:

              When Bart Simpson says “Call us Frog/Frogself” he is not trying to gum up the meeting.
              The meeting has already gone to heck in a handbasket.
              He’s just trying to be enough of a pest to avoid being called on for the rest of the meeting.

              In short: two hours of discussion of pronouns was not Bart’s Fault. It was Lisa’s, and you should know better.Report

    • DensityDuck in reply to DavidTC says:

      It’s just like when people talked about Trump’s FDA being bad, and it turned out that most of the FDA management had been in place since the Obama administration, and all those people who’d blamed everything on Trump immediately turned around and apologized, right?Report

      • DavidTC in reply to DensityDuck says:

        I have no idea what you’re talking about with ‘Trump’s FDA specifically being bad’, I can’t actually remember a single post or comment about the FDA that blamed their utter failure at many different things on _Trump_ as opposed to their general capture by industry and deliberate bureaucratic nonsense designed to make it hard for small companies to jump though, but, sure, let’s pretend that ‘Trump has made the FDA bad!’ also was a claimed thing and thus was also wrong.Report

  6. Jaybird says:

    How many systems do we have that were built by exceptionally smart people to be maintained by exceptionally smart people and run by very smart people?

    And what would happen if merely very smart people started maintaining these systems and only average people ran them?

    What would that look like? Would it look like this?Report

    • Philip H in reply to Jaybird says:

      That’s not the issue – the issue is federal IT is repleat with lots of stuff bought big because Congress wants it bought big, but not funded for unsexy maintenance or upgrade. Cutting ribbons for a new thing is sexy. And when Congress changes hands or the White House changes hands, political emphasis changes as well. O&M looses out.

      Plus keeping really smart people is tough – Google or Meta can pay people 6 or 7 times what we pay for the same job.

      That’s what has to be fixed, not smart versus average people.Report

      • Jaybird in reply to Philip H says:

        I hope you’re right. Because if we’re in a place where we are very good at writing documents explaining that we’re changing from using THIS word to THAT one and we are starting to lose people who know how to run stuff like water plants or airplane software, then we’re going to start seeing stuff that presents identically to this stuff.

        But it’s nice to know that this is just a problem with funding.

        Like school districts, I guess.Report

        • Chip Daniels in reply to Jaybird says:

          Where are you getting this idea that “we” are losing people who know how to run stuff?
          This sounds an awful lot like a “these kids today” rant.Report

          • Jaybird in reply to Chip Daniels says:

            Stuff like in the story we’re commenting on. Like, there was a software-related nationwide ground stop?

            I also made an oblique reference to the Jackson, Mississippi water crisis from earlier in the year. The Army Corps of Engineers said that one of the biggest problems was failure to maintain it.

            Stuff like that is where I’m getting the idea from.Report

            • Chip Daniels in reply to Jaybird says:

              C’mon.
              You have to know that this makes no logical sense, right?

              Since the beginning of time, buildings collapsed, trains collided, ships sunk, planes crashed, and software glitches happened.

              These things all happened due to user error, design failures, maintenance deferment, the same things that caused this problem.Report

              • Jaybird in reply to Chip Daniels says:

                I guess that things fall apart. It’s silly to think that centers could hold.Report

              • Chip Daniels in reply to Jaybird says:

                Boy the way Glenn Miller played
                Songs that made the Hit Parade
                Guys like us we had it made
                Those were the days!

                And you knew what you were then
                Girls were girls and men were men
                Mister we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again

                Didn’t need no welfare state
                Everybody pulled their weight
                Boy our old La Salle ran great

                Those were the days!Report

        • James K in reply to Jaybird says:

          For what its worth, I think Phillip H is right here. Building things attracts attention- it gives politicians an opportunity to show off that they’re “getting things done”. But nobody gets photo ops for maintenance – people just assume something will work forever until it actually fails and its easy to assume you won’t be in office any more by the time that actually happens.Report

          • Jaybird in reply to James K says:

            That would be reassuring.

            I mean, it would mean that we could prevent stuff like this happening before it happened, if we wanted to.Report

          • Michael Cain in reply to James K says:

            Let me third that. During my time on a legislative staff, I came to the conclusion that maintenance in general is hard to get funded, and software maintenance in particular is very hard.Report

            • Chip Daniels in reply to Michael Cain says:

              Likewise.
              Virtually any building over 20 years old has a long long list of deferred maintenance items and items that are years beyond their service life but held together with duct tape and layers of paint.

              For that matter, I would bet money that not a single person here drives a car that doesn’t have deferred maintenance.

              Yet when the inevitable happens and a car breaks down or building’s furnace stops working, everyone acts like it is some freakish unforeseeable calamity.

              Because well, that’s human nature.Report

              • Jaybird in reply to Chip Daniels says:

                I would bet money that not a single person here drives a car that doesn’t have deferred maintenance.

                There’s “I should get my oil changed this week” kind of deferred maintenance and there’s “I should have gotten my oil changed last month” kind of deferred maintenance and then there’s “I find that black electrical tape placed in the right spot completely blocks the ‘check engine’ light” deferred maintenance.Report

          • Saul Degraw in reply to James K says:

            This is not limited to the public sector. Maintenance is deemed unsexy and dowdy. Maintenance is your spouse of decades. Building new things is a new f++k toy.Report

            • Jaybird in reply to Saul Degraw says:

              Axios has an article written by Alexi McCammond (domestic partner of TJ Ducklo) explaining how this isn’t Buttigeig’s fault:

              Report

              • Damon in reply to Jaybird says:

                Sorry, just like the president, who gets to take credit for a good economy which started during the last president’s time, he takes the blame for a bad one….Same goes for Administrators for gov’t. Don’t like it, don’t take the job.

                “It’s not my fault, it happened under the prior admin” should always be answered with “you own it now, fix it”.Report

              • Philip H in reply to Damon says:

                He can’t fix it without Congressional permission and appropriations.Report

              • Damon in reply to Philip H says:

                So what? Then he can damn well issue a press release saying he’s going to be doing that and an outline of what he’s putting before Congress.Report

              • Philip H in reply to Damon says:

                When the President’s budget comes out the first Tuesday of February I’m sure DOT will. We just got out Appropriation for this year three weeks ago – the Departments have yet to release their allocations yet.Report

              • DavidTC in reply to Damon says:

                While it’s easy to criticize each administration after it fails to fix things (which I think is what everyone is trying to say, it’s not the failure of the current administration but all previous ones, which means it will become the Biden’s administration’s failure also when they fail to do something about it) , a lot of it is that there simply isn’t enough money budgeted for things that the government is trying to do.

                Yes, in hindsight we can say that they should have picked this one particular issue, and made a big fuss about it and maybe it would have been done, but the problem is there a dozens and dozens of issues like that, and the government can’t magically predict which one is about to fail.

                And it didn’t help them a certain political party has decided to pretend that all government spending is evil, and the other political party has decided to almost go along with that.

                It really would be interesting if the president spent the entire time in office, with him, and each of the cabinet positions, constantly screaming to the media about how every single aspect of their department was poorly maintained and underfunded, but I have a feeling that wouldn’t actually result in anything. Congress really is going to have to just decide to fix this, to actually ask the hard questions how much it’s going to cost to maintain the things we already have, and maintain new things…and then be willing to pay it.Report

              • Damon in reply to DavidTC says:

                “a lot of it is that there simply isn’t enough money budgeted for things that the government is trying to do.”

                And just who is responsible for that? Where do you think Congress gets the amounts used in budget requests? From the administrators. )I assume they specify what they want to use it for and have to deal with getting some, none, nor all they money they want.) But none of that matters. How much they get is irrelevant. They own the relevant problems. They are responsible for fixing those problems. That they are not fixed is the their fault because they are responsible. Hell, it’s shitty but sorry. I wanted into a new job and my boss and the next most senior person quite 3 months later. Guess who now has to “own” certain stuff? Me. Thems the breaks. Deal. Fix it.Report

  7. Saul Degraw says:

    “”NOTAM’ is the term for Notices to Air Missions (formerly Notices to Airmen but several years ago the Biden Administration changed it to a gender-neutral term in one of its more inane actions).”

    How does this change harm you? Please point to where you are hurt on the doll.Report