54 thoughts on “Racism Under The Banner of Science

  1. Do we think that the Buffalo shooter wouldn’t have targeted blacks if the studies hadn’t been written? Or that he wouldn’t have targeted anyone? And if not, then can be blame racism on the studies? I don’t even think we can blame racism on the idea that some people are intellectually inferior. It seems to me that the largest amount of racial hate targets the group that has the strongest claim to genetically-based high intelligence.Report

    1. As I’ve pointed out before, the idea that group differences in socioeconomic outcomes are purely due to privilege and oppression has deeply disturbing antisemitic (and anti-Asian American) implications. Ashken*zi Jews put us white gentiles to shame, socioeconomically. Not being a heredity denialist, I say good for them, and am tremendously grateful for their wildly disproportionate contributions to advancing our understanding of the world and material standard of living. But if you subscribe to the privilege/oppression model of ethnic differences in socioeconomic outcomes, Jewish success might start to look a lot more sinister.

      If acknowledging the heritability of IQ inspires anti-black racism (it really shouldn’t), then denying the heritability of IQ inspires antisemitism. Conveniently omitted from the original post is the fact that the Buffalo shooter simultaneously accepted a genetic explanation for the black–white achievement gap while denying a genetic explanation for the Ashken*zi–gentile white achievement gap, and explicitly rationalized his antisemitism with this denial in his manifesto.

      The takeaway here is that racists gonna racist. When the science superficially aligns with their ideology, they’ll throw some charts from studies into their manifestos and do what they were going to do anyway. When the science contradicts their ideology, they’ll deny the science and do what they were going to do anyway.

      Genetics denialism makes strange bedfellows.Report

      1. As someone with some Jewish heritage (mostly from Eastern Europe though some Sephardi too) I’m skeptical of genetic claims here. *Culture* absolutely – a culture that values study and learning will likely have more kids grow up to be scholars and go into professions requiring a lot of education (especially if that is presented as the way to get ahead and gain respect), which possibly explains a lot of ‘model minorities’ – but genetics? Maybe if being smart and scholarly was valued as much in women as in men there might be some tendency toward selection, but that generally hasn’t been the case anywhere until very recent history.

        That said, you’re right about racists gonna racist. There is zero logic involved, just whatever bizarre twisted rationalization they tossed together to tell themselves the darkness in them is some kind of truth that those stupid ‘woke’ people just refuse to see.Report

      1. If he didn’t find one, he would have likely done the same actions somewhere else without an ideology. My suspicion, however, is that if the headlines were “Buffalo Man Seeks Glory, Finds None”, then the impulse for this kind of display would be diminished.Report

          1. Not because of a law, but because of human decency. He had nothing interesting to say, so there’s no value to be found in talking about him beyond saying he was a loser.Report

            1. That’s naïve. People killing people is interesting. Expecting everyone to not pay attention to him runs into collective action issues.

              We need to prevent him from inspiring others. We’ve already shown that we need a law or the media can’t help themselves.Report

              1. People killing people in Chicago isn’t interesting. People killing people is only interesting if you know them or if you’re trying to sell a narrative. We decided last week that we should talk about the murders fully aware that we were, to some extent, making such murders more appealing and thus more likely. I hope our policy debate had enough value that it made up for that.

                Let’s be honest. The ability to access guns hasn’t changed much. Mental health has taken a hit under covid, but we don’t know how much. The only things we can be sure are increasing are the number of words people like us spend on mass murderers and the number of desperate, pathetic people who crave that kind of attention enough to commit mass murders. We are complicit.Report

              2. What’s happened is the media has decided that all mass shootings are the same.

                So two thugs or groups of thugs shooting it out is presented as a “mass shooting” when the rest of us probably don’t, and shouldn’t, care.

                Most (all?) of these are not spree killers trying to create a high body count in the act of killing themselves.

                If we had the time to do a deep dive on them we’d find out that they have criminal histories and have their guns illegally.Report

              3. Like last two big time mass shooters got their guns legally.

                DV is the biggest criminal related indicator out there. Restricting gun ownership among people with dv/family violence hx’s is likely a good idea and has been pointed out by a bunch of people who have studied the issue.Report

              4. This past session, my state expanded its gun ownership restrictions to include serious DV misdemeanors, in order to catch the people who were charged with felonies to start but plea-bargained down.Report

  2. The first person who comes up with a test that has people from that side of the tracks score better on than this side of the tracks (and has them scoring that way reliably after a couple of years despite the ability to study for it) is going to make a billion dollars.Report

    1. You probably felt smart writing that, but this test that doesn’t fluctuate over time doesn’t exist. Not a single one. Not even the IQ obcessed crew says this these days.Report

  3. Well, I can already see that this thread is gonna be a sh*tshow. I wish the ignore function worked in the “Recent Comments” bar as well.Report

    1. The inevitable “I was staring at that womans chest because of evolution” is always worthwhile in any BehavGen/ EvoPsych discussion.Report

      1. I can’t remember if I ever talked about it here, but I went to grad school at one of the Evo Psych Meccas, with one of that field’s strongest personalities, and which produced some of that field’s most well-known and worst current offenders. I can’t tell you how many such conversations I had with undergrads who came by my office hours, or who caught me outside smoking, or grad students and faculty at parties or bars. I’ve never seen anything else quite like it, in intellectual circles. It was a massive fad, led by a sort of cult of personality who had an incredible ability to influence young people’s minds (and some old people’s minds).Report

    2. I was going to congratulate you on…ah…”christening” the thread, but on second thought that honor goes to Dr. Pittelli.Report

  4. Despite to argument you lay out, IMHO we should always hesitate to place ideological limits on the science being done, regardless of the good/harm involved, lest we open that door to more extreme ideological limits.

    Better to spend the resources falsifying the research in an irrefutable way (as happened to phrenology) than to say, “Bad researchers! BAD! Go stand in the corner and think about what you’ve done!”.Report

    1. There are a lot of factors that go into determining what topics are worthwhile to research, including ethical, societal, and even political ones. The only reasons this sort of research continues come from the last of these, and as the OP argues, the first two types of considerations argue strongly against continued research on genetic causes of racial differences in intelligence.

      There is only so much money out there for research in any given discipline, and that money would be much better spent elsewhere.

      Let’s also not pretend that scientific debates take place entirely within the ivory tower, either. Particularly when it comes to race and gender, they leak out into the public with little or no heed paid by lay people to which arguments are winning among the actual scientists, as you can see by racists continuing to use long-debunked research and theories in their own rhetoric.Report

      1. So where is the money coming from for this type of research?

        I know it’s not something that can be dealt with at the publishing level, because science journals have a lot of the same problems schools do, in that the public has a hard time determining which journals have standards and which just enjoy money.Report

        1. The problem now is less the journals than science journalism, which is terrible and shoots for clicks rather than accuracy, as well as both scientists and non-scientists with strong ideological (in this case, racist) agendas who take their work to a sympathetic public rather than letting its fate be decided within the scientific community.

          Also, ideological foundations generally fund genetic research on race differences. See, e.g., Charles Murray.Report

          1. Ah, that makes sense, and they probably don’t have to fund a ton of it.

            I do agree with the OP that scientists should not pretend they exist in a perfectly logical vacuum, and that all research is without sociological consequence. I just don’t want extreme ideologues closing off avenues of research just because it threatens their priors. Because once that kind of door gets open, everyone gets to walk through it.Report

            1. While I don’t think there are any purely scientific reasons for anything, because purely scientific reasons can’t exist as long as humans are doing the science, I think the OP gave solid scientific reasons for not doing this sort of research.Report

      2. If we can figure out how genes interact with intelligence then we may be able to test for and/or treat a number of developmental disorders. Maybe even make people smarter.

        We need to be studying this.Report

          1. Race is a poor stand in for genes. It would only be acceptable to equate the two if we couldn’t measure genes exactly, but since we can we shouldn’t be using race as a stand in.Report

          2. That poses an interesting question. There are a lot of areas of research that ignore racial differences and end-up with skewed results because their sample is not representative of racial diversity. Some people here refer to ignoring racial differences as an example of unconscious bias. The study that the author believes is racist found that results had a “much lower predictive power in an African-American sample than in a European-ancestry sample.” It goes on to encourage more study in this area.

            And I think that’s where the rub will be. Genetic studies of general intelligence are going on all around the world regardless of American religious objections and its unique racial history. Access to these studies will be available, but if the science is chased into the alley in America, it will be domestically inaccurate to some degree while still informing people on the internet.Report

            1. Isn’t the best study of human behavior and outcomes, called “History”?

              As in, there is a massive field study of general intelligence being conducted right now, involving all 7 billion people on the planet.

              The study looks at the outcomes of not just IQ, but also compounding variables like natural resources and the effect of interaction between groups .

              I’m being tongue in cheek of course, but when actual scientists want to look at the effect of genetics on say, wildflowers, they gather empirical evidence of what’s actually happening with flowers in the wild.
              Which species are flourishing, which ones are dying out.Report

            2. If intelligence is strongly impacted by genetics, then geneticists should be able to pinpoint specific genes that are at play. Once those genes are identified AND the mechanism by which they affect intelligence has at least a rational explanation, then you can look at demographics.

              If you start with demographics other than raw intellect, you run the risk of finding genes that are commonly expressed in one demographic over another, then hypothesizing about their impact without an actual mechanism defined (i.e. looking for evidence to support your theory rather than using evidence to develop a hypothesis).

              Also, when it comes to genes, one thing that happens a lot is that everyone has a given gene, but environmental impacts will turn that gene on or off. So what if we all have genes for high intelligence, but poverty tends to switch them off, or we all have genes for ADD / ADHD, but poverty tends to turn those on?Report

              1. It is standard operating procedure to look at inbred populations, in terms of understanding genes. Given that inbred populations tend to have a lower IQ, I’d start there.

                Amygdala hyperactivity has been studied, and definitely has an impact on intelligence (through motivation).Report

    2. The difference between phrenology and behavior genetics is that behavior genetics appears to be correct. GWAS is in its infancy, but the results of twin studies, which provide stronger evidence for the magnitude of heritability (and which were thus conveniently hand-waved away in Dr. Pittelli’s 2019 post linked by Jaybird above), if not the mechanics, are quite robust.

      One reason it’s important to acknowledge the high heritability of behavioral and cognitive traits is that genetics-blind sociology is completely busted. It’s extremely common for papers to assert environmental causation despite obvious genetic confounders that were totally ignored. Premising our study of society on the axiom that H^2 = 0 is like premising our study of climate on the axiom that atmospheric carbon dioxide has no effect.Report

      1. I am 100% down with the argument that:

        If X is True
        Then we will institute policies based around X
        These policies will be horrible, awful, and no good
        Therefore X is False

        I’m down. 100%.
        We should all totally have this attitude in public.

        Yes! It’s phrenology!
        Anyone who disagrees is racist!Report

        1. I disagree.

          I want to know the truth, even if it’s ugly. That doesn’t mean I need to act on it, or create terrible policies on it. Knowing the truth gives us options, power, and sanity.

          So if I have lead pipes I want to know, or if my wife is cheating on me I still want to know.Report

          1. People who are certain that they’re privileged always like to know the Ugly Truth about how your lack of privilege is your own fault (or, at least, not theirs).Report

            1. You’re trying to put someone else’s emotional baggage on me. That’s fine, I’ll continue to not care.

              “Privilege” seems to mean “my parents were married and invested a lot in me”. That’s a cultural thing, not a genetic thing.

              My expectation is the influence of genes at an individual level is very high but at a race level is very small. That culture creates the bulk of the inequality.Report

        1. You can be done whenever you want to be, but you haven’t really said anything meaningful. “Both” can mean anywhere from 1% of one and 99% of the other to the other way around.

          Taking IQ as an example, what twin studies tell us is that:

          1. In international samples, where the range of environments includes both wealthy countries with universal primary and secondary education and underdeveloped countries with parasites, malnutrition, and limited schooling, the effect of shared environment can be quite profound.

          2. In samples from wealthy countries, the effect of shared environment on IQ measured in early childhood can be large, and genetic influence is more significant in children from higher-SES families (this is known as the Scarr-Rowe effect).

          3. In samples from wealthy countries with universal K-12, even with samples including twins from a wide range of socioeconomic backgrounds, IQ as measured in late adolescence or adulthood shows very strong genetic influence with minimal shared environmental influence.

          The fade-out of shared environmental contributions to IQ over time is known as the Wilson effect, and the causes are not well understood. Possibly it’s just a matter of higher-SES children getting a head start on learning, with universal K-12 serving as a catch-up mechanism.

          All of these can technically be described as “both,” but they’re three very different “boths.”

          Educational attainment is still another different “both.” Even in wealthy countries, shared environment makes a significant contribution to educational attainment, although genetics is the largest contributor. Probably this is due to some combination of cultural and financial factors.Report

          1. And if IQ was all that it’s proponents think it is that would mean more. It can predict some things but not others. Or at least not without those confounds.

            Both is a good answer since there is no way around both having an impact. Give some with great genes a crappy enviro and you’ll likely get a really poor result. Give someone with poor genes ( whatever that is) a ton of support and they will likely do well. Life success cannot be narrowed simply to genes.Report

  5. In clearly stating a preference for denying the heritability of cognitive and behavioral traits regardless of what the evidence says, you’ve thrown away any shred of credibility your assessment of the science might have had. Unless you lay out a solid argument for why the results of twin studies should be disregarded that can be independently verified by readers, there’s no reason anyone should trust you on this.Report

  6. This kind of research is crap, according to actual experts, has always been crap, according to historians of science, and, although past performance is no guarantee of future results, the smart money is that it will always be crap.
    That said, if anyone wants do this kind of research — and we can be pretty sure why one wants to — knock yourself out. There is always somebody out there to fund it and we can be pretty sure why they want to. Nobody is “censoring” you. We do, however, reserve the right to point and laugh.
    And just to be clear, the unwillingness of the scientific establishment to fund you or take you seriously isn’t censorship either, any more than refusing to fund creationism or take it seriously is. Some working scientists might be willing to take time away from their day jobs to point out in great detail why this stuff is crap, and some have done it, just as some working scientists took time away from their day jobs to point out in great detail why creationism is crap. But nobody gets tenure or funding for that; it’s in the nature of public service. Most working scientists have better things to do, and, understandably, prefer to work at their day jobs. So don’t expect them to play whack-a-mole with random nonsense.Report

  7. The racial genetics stuff always ends up being a Just So story of “How The Leopard Got His Spots”, where it offers a tidy explanation which can never be replicated.

    Science, actual science, is considered useful only if it can explain the past and predict the future. Physics can explain where the moon was at any point in the past, and predict where it will be at any point in the future. Very useful!

    But this stuff can’t do any of that. It can’t explain past events, or historical outcomes and can’t predict future ones.
    Not on an individual level, or a civilization-wide level.

    Because what it is trying to explain (if we are willing to cut out all the bullsh!ttery) is “Why are White Europeans doing so well, while non-white people are not?”

    But of course, this is only true if you are dealing with the past century or two. Throughout human history, the “pinnacle of human civilization” (itself a bullsh1t idea) was to be found in India, or China, or the Mediterranean, or perhaps Africa. Only around 1300 CE or so could Northern Europe offer a plausible claim.

    Racial genetics doesn’t have any way to explain this. Real genetics can explain how the DNA from a tribe in the Indus Valley found its way to North America or why the Aztecs share traits with the Chinese.

    And even at the individual level, the heredity of IQ doesn’t seem to hold up very well or explain much in the way of outcomes. IQ itself doesn’t explain very much, and the hereditability doesn’t seem to last beyond a generation before being washed out by other factors.

    And even the opening premise which is being explained (“Why are White Europeans doing so well, while non-white people are not?”) is increasingly an absurd premise.

    If the 17th thru 19th century were the European Golden Age, and the 20th century was the American Century, it looks entirely possible that the 21st century will be the Chinese Century and a hundred years from now some guys in Shanghai will be confidently explaining why the Chinese DNA is why they are so superior to the mongrel Westerners.

    Or maybe not- But in any case, none of this racial genetics stuff will help us predict it.Report

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