The Grammar Thread
It has recently been brought to my attention that we may need a place where we can argue about stuff that has nothing to do with any given substantive point, but with someone else’s word choice.
This can be an eternal thread for such discussions that they not clutter up the comment sections for posts that talk about things other than grammar.
The Merriam-Webster dictionary can be found here.
The online thesaurus can be found here.
A brief tutorial on how to link to websites in html can be found here.
This subthread was removed from the post about West Side Story:
Jaybird in reply to Jaybird
Ignored December 11, 2021 at 12:09 pm (Edit)
As I was making my bagel, I realized that maybe Spielberg made donations to the right people and Miranda didn’t feel like he had to.
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CJColucci in reply to Jaybird
Ignored December 12, 2021 at 12:11 pm (Edit)
How do you “realize” a “maybe”?
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Jaybird in reply to CJColucci
Ignored December 12, 2021 at 12:34 pm (Edit)
It’s something that happens when you’re idly thinking things while doing mundane tasks like cooking. It’s like “holy cow, there are options that I hadn’t considered!”
Wait, are you one of the people who doesn’t have an inner monologue?
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CJColucci in reply to Jaybird
Ignored December 12, 2021 at 2:43 pm (Edit)
You can “suspect” a maybe or “invent” a maybe. You can realize the possibility of a maybe you hadn’t previously thought of, because the “possibility” is itself a real thing, at least in the mind of the realizer. But to “realize” a thing in the world, like somebody paying somebody off, requires that it be a thing in the world.
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Jaybird in reply to CJColucci
Ignored December 12, 2021 at 3:09 pm (Edit)
*I* can realize them
Wait, are you one of the people who can’t?
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CJColucci in reply to Jaybird
Ignored December 12, 2021 at 4:22 pm (Edit)
Why, yes. I can realize what I can realize and what I can’t. Apparently, not everyone else has that ability.
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Jaybird in reply to CJColucci
Ignored December 12, 2021 at 4:48 pm (Edit)
You know, they say that physics is only able to make leaps when all of the old calcified physicists have died and there is finally elbow room for the new theories.
It’s called Planck’s Principle.
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CJColucci in reply to Jaybird
Ignored December 12, 2021 at 5:27 pm (Edit)
“I can call spirits from the vasty deep.”
“Why so can I, and so can any man. But will they come for you when you do call for them?”
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Jaybird in reply to CJColucci
Ignored December 12, 2021 at 5:45 pm (Edit)
“What are they arguing about?”
“Well, Jaybird is using the definition of ‘realize’ that means ‘become aware of something’ and CJ is arguing that ‘realize’ means ‘to cause something to become real’.”
“Which one appears first in Webster’s?”
“It doesn’t matter, does it?”
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CJColucci in reply to Jaybird
Ignored December 12, 2021 at 6:14 pm (Edit)
Reading comprehension again? If your point is that you became aware of the content of your own mind and “realized” that you had some idea or other, however ill-founded or otherwise unrelated to reality, then there’s no disagreement. If your point is, as your language suggests, that you became aware of a fact in the world, then there is. Only you know what your point was — or, more accurately, you’re the only person who could know, whether you do or not.
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Jaybird in reply to CJColucci
Ignored December 12, 2021 at 7:08 pm (Edit)
Light word substitution gives us:
“As I was making my bagel, I became aware that maybe Spielberg made donations to the right people and Miranda didn’t feel like he had to.”
So… anyway.
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CJColucci in reply to Jaybird
Ignored December 12, 2021 at 8:13 pm (Edit)
I leave as an exercise to the reader whether this is any different, and, if so, how.
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This is really more about semantics than about grammar.Report
At least it’s not syntax.Report
“As I was making my bagel, I began to suspect that Spielberg made donations to the right people and Miranda didn’t feel like he had to.”
seems more accurate to me.Report
But suspect is so much more accusatory and conspiratorial. It makes it sound like Jaybird is standing there making a bagel and OBSSESSING over the possibility, like he feels he’s about to crack the case or whatever, when all he was really doing is musing about something idly. And since CJ has a track record of claiming that various people are exaggerating points and is clearly willing to go to the mat over arbitrary word choices, it would seem that a person speaking with him would probably want to avoid picking out words that made their position sound stronger than it truly was.Report
First Google hit for “dictionary suspect”:
sus·pect
/səˈspekt/
1. have an idea or impression of the existence, presence, or truth of (something) without certain proof.
That’s how I use it too, e.g. “I suspect the Giants are going to regret only getting one run this inning.”Report
It was more of an idle “oh, jeez. There was an option that I had overlooked but when I was making breakfast it appeared to me” rather than a NO SERIOUSLY LET’S BREAK THIS CRAP DOWN observation.Report
Much more, since what it refers to is the content of his own mind, which he can “realize,” rather than the state of the world, which he can “realize” only if the state of his mind corresponds with the state of the world, e.g., Spielberg made the right donations and Miranda didn’t. Other words or phrases besides “suspect” might include for example : “thought,” “conjectured,” “came to believe,” “made up,” “pulled out of my nether regions.” Any of these make clear that Jaybird is describing some mental impression he has, perhaps an irritable one (h/t Lionel Trilling), which we can take for what it’s worth, rather than making an assertion about the real world.Report
Excuse me SIR, but SUSPECT has a CLEAR DEFINITION BEFORE THE LAW, it means “PERSON WHO HAS BEEN ACCUSED OF A CRIME”. Are you suggesting that Steven Spielberg has been accused of a crime? Reading comprehension much?Report
Only as a NOUN, in which case the accent is on the first syllable. “Suspect” as a VERB, accent on the second syllable, is a very different matter. But you probably know that. At least I sus-PECT you do.Report
“I realized it was possible that…”Report
I think you misapprehended the need – it should really be the “Be a prick to Jaybird” thread. Would be nice to consolidate all of that under one easily-ignorable post and keep it out of the main discussions. Sort of like the old “Hating on Charles Bird” spinoff from Obsidian Wings.Report
I’m serious when I say that dude is very definitely working out his issues here, where his clients can’t hear him.Report
In this comment, Jaybird said that the mayor of San Fransisco “flaunted her own mask mandate.” The correct word to use here is “flouted.” “Flaunt” means to show something off ostentatiously, while “flout” means to express or demonstrate contempt or disregard for something, usually laws or rules.
This is why you’ll never make it big on Substack, Jaybird.Report
Huh. Learn something new every day.Report
If you doubt it, flout it.Report
It’s used “incorrectly” so often that it’s basically no longer incorrect anymore.Report