Nine Days Of American Justice

Burt Likko

Pseudonymous Portlander. Pursuer of happiness. Bon vivant. Homebrewer. Atheist. Recovering Republican. Recovering Catholic. Recovering divorcé. Editor-in-Chief Emeritus of Ordinary Times. Relapsed Lawyer, admitted to practice law (under his real name) in California and Oregon. There's a Twitter account at @burtlikko, but not used for posting on the general feed anymore. House Likko's Words: Scite Verum. Colite Iusticia. Vivere Con Gaudium.

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8 Responses

  1. Jaybird says:

    This is absolutely dizzying.

    Excellent post.

    If I were to hope to add another necessary (but not sufficient) condition to Justice, it’d involve expanding #3 and including something like Rawls’ “Veil of Ignorance”.

    The Code of Hammurabi had a whole bunch of rules but people in the current year are usually outraged about how there is one set of rules for nobles, one set of rules for free men, and one set of rules for slaves. And punishments differed based on who did what to whom. A free man knocking out the tooth of a free man? That’s a tooth for a tooth. A free man knocking out the tooth of someone else’s slave? That’s a fine.

    Numbers 15:15-16, in the KJV, states:
    15 One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the Lord.

    16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

    “Justice” includes something like that.Report

  2. Burt Likko says:

    Yeah that’s an important part of freedom from bias to underline. Biases based on wealth, status, prestige, and fame are pervasive, powerful, and pernicious. Query if recent experience in trial courts suggests that we are moving towards or away from these biases.

    Rawls offers a very good concept in the veil of ignorance, though he invokes it when discussing rulemaking and permissible inequalities. I’m not sure how application of a rule in a specific instance can possibly ignore who the actual parties to a dispute are — we like to depict Justice as wearing a blindfold, but query if she should take it off when she’s done with using her scale, because a blind goddess swinging a sword around could do a lot of damage.Report

    • Koz in reply to Burt Likko says:

      Burt, I made a comment in one of the other threads about the charges against Jackie Johnson one of the early prosecutors of the Arbery case, ie, one of them who didn’t prosecute. I’m not a big expert on indictments, but I’ve never seen one with few if any factually allegations. Have you seen that, if so what do you think?

      My guess is that those charges aren’t really intended to be litigated but instead are a kind of performance art by lawyers. Is that possible, in general or here?Report

      • Burt Likko in reply to Koz says:

        I’ll defer to my colleagues with more crimlaw experience but when I’ve seen informations, they’ve been VERY factually spare, e.g.:

        “On or about November 26, 2021, Defendant KOZ did, with malice aforethought, murder BURT LIKKO, a human being,in violation of Penal Code section 187.”

        And that’s about it. And as you probably already know, “with malice aforethought” is a legal term of art more than a description of the factual circumstances of the alleged killing.Report

        • Koz in reply to Burt Likko says:

          Thanks for answering, Burt, that’s the part I was wondering about. That’s basically how this particular indictment reads (obv wrt a different set of charges).

          So for the defendant in a case like this, what happens next? I mean, the defense doesn’t really know what to argue against. Is this simply assigned to a trial judge, and the defense can make motions to that particular court? If so, what kind of motions would they make?Report

          • Burt Likko in reply to Koz says:

            Sorry to take so long to respond, Koz — the Thanksgiving holiday was blessedly full of activity for me.

            As I understand it, what happens next as a formal process is “disclosure.” The prosecution is supposed to turn over everything it has in its file to defense counsel. So counsel will get things like witness statements and reports from the police and such. More informally, defense counsel also has an opportunity to interview her client and get the client’s side of the story; sometimes there are logistical challenges to that if the client is in custody.

            Some states have what’s called a “preliminary hearing” where the prosecution is required to put evidence up in open court and subject to cross-examination, ostensibly to allow the judge to decide if the case has sufficient merit that a jury could potentially find the defendant guilty. I mentioned this to a colleague a few weeks ago and he said he wasn’t familiar with doing things like that so I don’t know if that’s a part of Oregon procedure, or if it is, if my colleague’s experience has been more limited such that he’s simply never done one. It was definitely a big deal to my California colleagues.

            As for motion practice, if defense counsel thinks it’s taking too long for the prosecutor to get the information to her, or if she thinks that information is incomplete, she can bring a Brady motion. (Brady v. Maryland, (1963) 373 US 83.) Technically, the Brady motion is aimed only at all potentially exculpatory evidence in the prosecution’s possession, custody, or control but I think there’s a similar procedure for advising counsel about what the inculpatory evidence is as well, at least in general terms. But again, I need to defer to my colleagues who actually practice in this realm because they know more about it than I do.

            There’s a lot of appellate cases dealing with Brady motions, as you might expect — the prosecution doesn’t want to give up exculpatory evidence and to hear a prosecutor talk, she already looked at all the evidence and decided there just wasn’t anything exculpatory in there, the defendant is just plain guilty, so I’m not giving you anything because there’s nothing to give, won’t you please talk with your guy about that and get him to take a plea? No, I won’t, because my own investigation suggests [X] and you’d have [X] and I haven’t seen it so are you going to cough it up or do we need to talk with the judge about this? And thus is the art of law plied.Report

    • a blind goddess swinging a sword around could do a lot of damage

      And is no basis for a system of government.Report