Mandatory Vaccination? In THIS Country?

Em Carpenter

Em was one of those argumentative children who was sarcastically encouraged to become a lawyer, so she did. She is a proud life-long West Virginian, and, paradoxically, a liberal. In addition to writing about society, politics and culture, she enjoys cooking, podcasts, reading, and pretending to be a runner. She will correct your grammar. You can find her on Twitter.

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43 Responses

  1. Jaybird
    Ignored
    says:

    I remember my mom having to submit my vaccination papers to my school back in the 80’s.

    In the 90’s, I met my first anti-vaxxer. My chiropractor/kinesiologist had all of the literature about this one kid who was fine and then got the vaccine and then TOTALLY DIED. There were pictures and everything!

    I grew up handing in my vaccine passport. I suppose I understand some apprehension about a one-in-a-million risk but the diseases that the vaccines prevent are a lot more likely than one-in-a-million.

    We need to do a better job teaching stats, I guess. Maybe we should have state lotteries that have sky-high odds and show people that the dollar they spend every week is being flushed down the toilet.Report

  2. Philip H
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    says:

    We need to do a better job teaching stats, I guess.

    Why yes, yes we do.

    Maybe we should have state lotteries that have sky-high odds and show people that the dollar they spend every week is being flushed down the toilet.

    How’s that working out for us so far as a teaching tool?

    IN the early 1970’s my family went to Spain for a year for one of my father’s several research sabbaticals. As this was the end of the Franco dictatorship, the US was none too friendly with Spain, and essentially treated the country as a third world undeveloped nation. So, in order to get the State Department to process our visa application and send it to the Spanish Embassy, we had to be immunized against small pox, Denge Fever and malaria, in addition to the usual childhood vaccinations then in use.

    In other words, our own government would not allow us as a family to apply to travel to a modern European country in the modern era unless we were immunized against diseases largely eradicated in both the US and our destination. All for political reasons.

    If that was ok, and I believe it mostly was, then mandatory COVID vaccines are ok. If it wasn’t, someone owes me a lollipop.Report

    • Damon in reply to Philip H
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      says:

      I doubt that the US gov’t really thought you needed the shots. More likely was that it was politically motivated, making it harder to go there since the country was in “disfavor”. I experienced that as well when I applied for a visa to enter Russia. It took me 4 hours to fill out the application, and I had to call my ex wife to get some of her details for the application too. I had to provide all kinds of data that I never had to provide before. Why? Cause that’s the info the US gov’t requires from Russians coming here. The US makes it very difficult to visit here from Russia, so Russia does the same thing to US visitors.Report

      • Philip H in reply to Damon
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        says:

        More likely was that it was politically motivated, making it harder to go there since the country was in “disfavor”.

        As this was the end of the Franco dictatorship, the US was none too friendly with Spain, and essentially treated the country as a third world undeveloped nation.

        Report

    • Michael Cain in reply to Philip H
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      says:

      The real question isn’t what the government did 50 years ago, or (to the original post) what the SCOTUS ruled 115 years ago. After all, 115 years ago it was settled law that the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms was not a right that applied to individuals. The real question is what this SCOTUS will rule today. I’m sure it will surprise me.

      (You live in an area of pretty intense contradictions right now. MS has in recent history been far and away the toughest state on school vaccinations, achieving >99% of kids vaccinated. And yet, is one of the states where the people are most resistant to getting the Covid-19 vaccination.)Report

      • Philip H in reply to Michael Cain
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        says:

        Oh I’m aware. We have school districts ordering masks in school buildings left and right, and a first term Trumplican governor who might not get a second term because of his original mandates last year.Report

    • Mike Schilling in reply to Philip H
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      says:

      Franco wasn’t still dead yet?Report

  3. Saul Degraw
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    says:

    My guess is that there are enough Federalist society whack jobs on the bench and Courts of Appeal that anti-mandate loons will be able to forum shop until they find a sympathetic judge. The Supreme Court is anybody’s guess because this is the kind of suit that Roberts would shut down because of his desire to preserve the reputation of the Supreme Court.Report

    • Philip H in reply to Saul Degraw
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      says:

      We shouldn’t have to keep explaining why 30% of the country refusing to get vaccinated to protect themselves, their children, and the economy is bad, but here we are.

      And taking an anti-Semitic swipe at Saul is pretty low.Report

  4. Brandon Berg
    Ignored
    says:

    Has the Supreme Court ever accepted a preamble-based argument? It doesn’t actually define or limit the government’s powers in any way, AFAICT.Report

  5. veronica d
    Ignored
    says:

    Further, the Court rejected the family’s claim that the ordinance was unnecessary because there was no instance of smallpox in town…

    Statements like this always make me boggle. Does the family not ask themselves why there is no smallpox in town?

    The schema is basically, “We don’t need [solution to problem] because [solution to problem] seems to actually eliminate [problem].”

    It’s like… yeah that’s the point.

    “We didn’t need to work so hard to fix the Y2K bugs because people worked really hard and fixed the Y2K bugs.”

    It’s idiocy.Report

  6. Philip H
    Ignored
    says:

    Wanna know why I’m so hard over on so many government interventions in the pandemic fight? Because before COVID we didn’t have to airlift kids 150 to get treated for a serious illness BECAUSE WE WERE OUT OF BEDS.

    IN HOUSTON.

    WHICH IS A BIG CITY.

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/06/us/houston-baby-girl-airlifted-covid/index.htmlReport

    • Pinky in reply to Philip H
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      says:

      What’s the right number of pediatric beds for Houston?Report

      • North in reply to Pinky
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        says:

        Likely the number is currently has in a Texas that vaccinated at the same level the rest of the country did.Report

        • Mike Schilling in reply to North
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          says:

          With a state government that isn’t hostile to all efforts to control Covid and reduce its spread.Report

        • Pinky in reply to North
          Ignored
          says:

          Didn’t follow that.Report

          • Brandon Berg in reply to Pinky
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            says:

            I think he meant that Texas currently has a pediatric hospital bed count that would be sufficient if they had higher vaccination rates and/or better NPI.Report

            • Pinky in reply to Brandon Berg
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              says:

              So I’d say to Philip and North, why do you think that? Hospitals do everything they can to operate around 90% of capacity, and they reduce as much staff coverage of covid patients as they can. They’ve had 5-7 pediatric covid patients on average in the past week. They airlifted a patient to another facility, and the patient is doing fine. There’s nothing in this story indicating a failure of the health system.Report

              • DavidTC in reply to Pinky
                Ignored
                says:

                They’ve had 5-7 pediatric covid patients on average in the past week.

                I think you missed something: The article: Callaway said Ava was having seizures and needed to be intubated but Lyndon B. Johnson Hospital, where she was first taken, does not offer pediatric services.

                The hospital she ended up at, the hospital that ‘has 5-7 pediatric patients on average’, does not actually offer pediatric services. Whoopsie-daisy.

                Lyndon B. Johnson Hospital just, you know, happen to have a few infants laying around, probably because they were too lazy to walk them elsewhere in the giant 21 hospital complex of the Texas Medical Center. Or, alternately, literally every pediatric ICU bed in that complex is full.

                There’s nothing in this story indicating a failure of the health system.

                It’s almost as if the parents of the story that had a happy ending don’t mind providing medical information to CNN.

                Yes, in this particular instance the infant whowas forced to stay in the hospital for adults, who needed specialized infant treatment, didn’t die and was successfully airlifted. A happy ending all around.

                Now, let’s ask ourselves: When that doesn’t have a happy ending, surely the parents will…come forward and provide all that information to CNN. That seems like reasonable behavior for parents in mourning, right?

                I’m sure none of those other kids staying at the ICU in non-pediatric hospital (And remember, this is just one of them) have needed any sort of medical needs. The next time _they_ need to be intubated they’ll just…calmly wait for that, like this girl did.Report

              • Chip Daniels in reply to Pinky
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                says:

                There’s nothing in this story indicating a failure of the health system.

                You are absolutely correct.

                This is a failure, an abject catastrophic failure of the political leadership of Texas.Report

      • Mike Schilling in reply to Pinky
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        says:

        But what’s the right number of hospital beds for Texas to have?Report

    • JS in reply to Philip H
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      says:

      Oh, it’s worse than that.

      Houston is not just a big city, it’s one with effectively multiple “downtown” areas. One of them is called “the medical center” because it’s just a crap ton of hospitals, including Texas Children’s. It’s a massive nest of hospitals and research hospitals — Houston has a lot more hospital beds per capita than average, simply because it’s one of the core medical research areas in America.

      Here’s a nice picture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Medical_Center#Cityscape_and_infrastructure

      They ran a city that has it’s own downtown JUST FOR MEDICAL CARE out of beds.Report

  7. Chip Daniels
    Ignored
    says:

    I see that Margorie Taylor Greene has been suspended from Twitter for spreading Covid misinformation.

    It must be so difficult for moderators of social media. Are you dealing with some random internet crazy person, or an elected Republican? Troll or mainstream conservative?

    Who can tell anymore?Report

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