Adventures in Government: Key West Cruise Ships Edition

Andrew Donaldson

Born and raised in West Virginia, Andrew has since lived and traveled around the world several times over. Though frequently writing about politics out of a sense of duty and love of country, most of the time he would prefer discussions on history, culture, occasionally nerding on aviation, and his amateur foodie tendencies. He can usually be found misspelling/misusing words on Twitter @four4thefire and his food writing website Yonder and Home. Andrew is the host of Heard Tell podcast. Subscribe to Andrew's Heard Tell SubStack for free here:

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17 Responses

  1. Saul Degraw says:

    As much as I would like to dunk on Florida politicians because they do horrible things, I do not think this is a good example. The measure Key West voters want is the kind “keep out” measure I deplore because it feels outdated and connected to reptilian brains.Report

  2. InMD says:

    I lean towards Saul’s take though for slightly different reasons. The ‘local rule’ thing is probably better characterized as a form of NIMBYism where there is a clear local interest in prioritizing one kind of tourism/tourist over another. It’s perfectly legitimate for the state to overrule those kinds of barriers where they run counter to broader public and economic interests. Which isn’t to say that locals never know better but I don’t think there should be a presumption that they do.Report

  3. Jaybird says:

    If they don’t like it, they should move to Somalia.Report

  4. Damon says:

    Ever been in a small city when 1500 people or 3000 show up to show for trinkets? I have. It was a made house. The residents of a small locale are perfectly reasonable in wanting not to have their town overrun with a bunch of tourists, and to even cater to the high end market if they want….just like passing a law that you can’t be shirtless within the bounds of the city, etc.Report

    • Slade the Leveller in reply to Damon says:

      I think this is a good take. I’ve ridden RAGBRAI a few times, and introducing 20,000 cyclists into a town of 2,500 is a logistical nightmare. Iowa towns, however, love the income the riders bring so they compete every year to be overnight towns.

      If the good people of Key West are ready to forego the tourism dollars, and the Florida state constitution allows them to do so, then they should absolutely have that power.Report

  5. Oscar Gordon says:

    IIRC, states are sovereign, not counties or cities. So while I sympathize with the Keys, and find the lobbied legislators to be rather loathsome, the power does lie with the state.Report

    • KeysFish in reply to Oscar Gordon says:

      Florida’s constitution guarantees “home rule” so local municipalities can make just this kind of decision. Just as states are protected from Fed overreach by US Constitution, FL constitution is *supposed to* protect cities and counties from state overreach.Report

    • For the most part, the feds don’t like dealing with counties, cities, special districts, etc, even if the state has delegated authority to them. This can create problems. George W. Bush’s original No Child Left Behind Act included competitive grants to states for this purpose and that. Early grants were won largely by states in the Northeast and Midwest because state constitutions in the South and West tend to make school districts independent of state control. The grant system deducted points if the state government could not impose detailed procedures on the districts.

      The degree of delegation varies widely. Colorado counties are purely creatures of the state government (counties have gone to court many times trying to get that reversed). OTOH, the state constitution makes school districts nearly independent of state control.Report

      • Oscar Gordon in reply to Michael Cain says:

        Right, but that’s an artifact of the state constitution granting some degree of sovereignty to smaller unit, but it still comes from the state.

        And ports are something I can very much see a state deciding that to exercise control over.

        So to that, if KeysFish is correct (& I defer to him since I have no idea what FL does), then it sounds like something the state courts will sort out.

        But my more general point stands, states are granted sovereignty, and retain it over counties and cities unless the state specifically grants it to them.Report

        • Example: the Georgia just gave itself the ability to replace county election boards, and that’s both a legislative coup aimed at turning it into a one-party state and entirely legal.Report

          • Oscar Gordon in reply to Mike Schilling says:

            Exactly. Counties have no sovereignty beyond what the state grants.

            Now it’s probably not smart, depending on how strong the Democrats and folks falling to the left are, but it’s not illegal or (AFAIK) unconstitutional.Report

            • Likewise, the state of Michigan was completely within its power to replace the elected government of Flint with an emergency manager who would, as a cost-cutting measure, poison its water supply.

              And it could be argued (and has been) that the creation of West Virginia was illegal, since neither the localities involved nor the federal government had the power to change the boundaries of a sovereign state.Report

              • Didn’t they “finesse” the language in the Constitution? Congress recognized some bunch from what would be West Virginia as the legitimate state legislature for Virginia and accepted their request to split the state (with no one from the Confederate states seated)?Report

  6. KeysFish says:

    Fishing in the Keys is worth $800 million and supports 1000s of jobs — the big cruise ships rip up the sea floor and trash the fishery, putting real livelihoods at risk. On the other hand you’ve got foreign owned corporations that don’t follow US Labor law and pay their workers less than $20,000 per year while top execs take home $20M-$30M per year. Working people in the Keys voted to change the business model of their port. They ought to be allowed to see it through.Report

    • Oscar Gordon in reply to KeysFish says:

      This is kind of a pointless argument to make here. I’m not saying you are right or wrong, but it’s a value laden argument that has nothing to do with the legal question, which is:

      Does the state have the power to over-rule the Keys on with regard to seaport management?

      If the FL constitution grants considerable sovereignty to local governments over such issues, then the state is wrong and the Keys can take them to court and overturn the proposed law. If, however, the state is correct, then the value laden argument needs to be directed at the FL public and the members of the FL legislature so that laws can be crafted or amendments added to the FL constitution granting localities more authority over ports and fisheries management.Report

      • KeysFish in reply to Oscar Gordon says:

        Point taken. The referendums were challenged in State and Federal court before the election and survived those challenges. Post-election, there are other challenges that could be brought in the courts. But rather than seeking remedies under existing law, the cruise companies are working the legislature to draft an entirely new law. If they succeed, the new Key West laws will be made illegal retroactively. Yes, the state clearly has the power to do this. But it is an extreme and antidemocratic use of that power.Report