Marjorie Taylor Greene and The Importance of the Fife Principle

Andrew Donaldson

Born and raised in West Virginia, Andrew has since lived and traveled around the world several times over. Though frequently writing about politics out of a sense of duty and love of country, most of the time he would prefer discussions on history, culture, occasionally nerding on aviation, and his amateur foodie tendencies. He can usually be found misspelling/misusing words on Twitter @four4thefire and his food writing website Yonder and Home. Andrew is the host of Heard Tell podcast. Subscribe to Andrew's Heard Tell SubStack for free here:

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55 Responses

  1. Doctor Jay says:

    I would like to think that people like MTG (I can’t see that abbreviation without thinking of “Magic: The Gathering”) will be the ruination of the Republican Party, and doom them to the backbenches for a generation. However, we just had four years of Trump, whom I thought at the outset would never get anything but fringe support from the country.

    So, I kind of feel all bets are off. So many people wave the stuff that seems scary and/or ridiculous off, or worse, embrace it.Report

    • Oscar Gordon in reply to Doctor Jay says:

      This kind of populism seems to be all about making the establishment GOP as uncomfortable and clownish as possible, and it’s working better than the anyone could have ever hoped for.Report

      • Stillwater in reply to Oscar Gordon says:

        After the violence at the Capitol (among other things*) I’m perplexed by the persistence of the “this is all about clowning” perspective. It’s very clearly not all about clowning.

        *One example: Trump tried to execute a plan to fire the Acting AG and install a loyalist who would quickly open an “investigation” into various states vote counts thereby delaying the January 6 certification process. Funny stuff!Report

        • Oscar Gordon in reply to Stillwater says:

          Your clowns are the wrong clowns.

          The populists want the establishment to be the clowns, and they are. McCarthy didn’t have to go to Florida and now before the Trump, or promise to give MTG a “stern talking to” like he was about to lightly chastise a teenage boy about snapping a girl’s bra.Report

          • Philip H in reply to Oscar Gordon says:

            And he’s apparently further be-clowned himself by not choosing to punish her in any meaningful way, trying to hide behind Steny Hoyer to do so, and then when that failed trying to blame it on Democrats.

            Its as if owning the Libs has become the central platform of the Republican party.Report

    • Brandon Berg in reply to Doctor Jay says:

      The problem is that a one-party Democratic supermajority would be disastrous. As bad as the Republicans are right now, they’re needed to maintain equilibrium and keep Democrats from passing all the dumb policy ideas they want to pass.

      Whether Republicans or Democrats are worse is not important—what matters is either one alone will produce worse outcomes than divided government.

      Ultimately, the problem is the electorate. When you have entire districts willing to elect garbage like MTG and the Squad, or primary voters nominating Trump and nearly nominating Sanders, that’s not a problem that can be solved by party leadership. It’s a deep sickness in the culture. Getting rid of primaries would probably be a good first step.Report

      • Chip Daniels in reply to Brandon Berg says:

        Sorry, you’re going to need to show your work.

        Democrats would be more disastrous than a regime that intends to destroy democracy?

        Explain this “disastrous” Democratic rule for us.Report

        • Saul Degraw in reply to Chip Daniels says:

          Brandon, like many “libertarians” suffers from business brain. He sees business rights as the superior and extreme rights and anything that gets in the way of that like civil rights for minorities, a right to having basic needs met and considered is bad, bad, bad and to be destroyed.Report

      • Doctor Jay in reply to Brandon Berg says:

        I live in a state, California, with a Democratic supermajority. It’s got problems, but it’s far from the fabled “hellhole” I read so much about.

        So…I’m kind of skeptical of your thesis. It’s true that everyone has dumb ideas, and they have trouble walking away from them, and that’s what having two parties is good for.

        However, rioting to disrupt and change the peaceful transfer of power is more than a “dumb idea”. Killing members of Congress is more than a “dumb idea”. Orbital space lasers starting forest fires is more than a dumb idea.

        It doesn’t escape my notice that it is my state, MY STATE, that is the whipping boy here. That makes it a bit personal for me.

        However, it isn’t up to me. I’ve done all I can. I didn’t vote for MTG. I didn’t vote for any of that garbage. It isn’t going to stop until Republicans stop voting for this garbage, in primaries and in the general. Maybe then we can get back to a sane opposition who can be relied on to kill some dumb ideas.Report

      • Pinky in reply to Brandon Berg says:

        I’d like to see a wiser electorate too. But it seems to me that if your priority is divided government, you should be happy that some districts are strong for one party or the other.Report

      • Whether Republicans or Democrats are worse is not important

        When one of them wants to destroy the rule of law, it kind of is.Report

      • James K in reply to Brandon Berg says:

        The Democrats support many foolhardy policies, but this has gone beyond policy now. The Republicans need to return to being a reasonable party to oppose the Democrats or they need to be destroyed to allow another party to rise in its place.

        The only way I see that happening is for the Republicans to wallow in defeat. They won’t change without a political incentive to change, nor will their followers abandon them so long as they can see victory in their grasp. That means the Republican party needs to suffer repeated, humiliating defeat. If that results in some bad policies being passed, that can be cleaned up later once balance is resorted, it’s not like your country is a stranger to bad policy decisions.

        You may fear what the Democrats can do unopposed, but none of that will matter unless sanity is restored to the American right. Because if the Republicans stay in their current state for very long, your Republic is doomed.Report

  2. Rufus F. says:

    Don’t forget, she’s also an antisemite. Although, with conspiracy theorists, it usually comes to that.

    https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-republican-party-donates-thousands-to-qanon-supporting-congressional-candidate-1.9261310Report

  3. LeeEsq says:

    The Republican Party more than tolerated loons, they openly cultivated their loon base and politicians for a long time since the 1960s. Then sometime after Bush II, the Republican elites finally lost control and the loons took over the party. It has been down hill since then. Greene, Boebert, Gohmert, Hawley, and others are the future of the Republican Party because of decades of work that preceded this moment.Report

    • Chip Daniels in reply to LeeEsq says:

      And more importantly, the old structure where the Wall Street Republicans used the Culture War Republicans as foot soldiers has broken down.

      The Culture War Republicans don’t need the Wall Street faction to win elections, or even provide respectable veneer.

      They can win elections by being loud and proud and let their freak Stars and Bars flag fly.Report

      • LeeEsq in reply to Chip Daniels says:

        2010 onward showed that Culture War Republicans can win elections just fine in the right districts and just need to use the gerrymander and voter repression to ensure that they always win. Since they see themselves as representing the one true United States, they have no problem with this.Report

  4. Philip H says:

    That and a policy agenda that amounts to “Make sure no one can vote against you.” Since winning elections on the basis of sound ideas is passe’.Report

  5. Saul Degraw says:

    I think Lee and Chip are correct. This problem is only going to get worse but has always been around. GA-14 choose Greene because they like the crazy, not despite liking the crazy. 2016 and 2020 proved a solid minority of Americans likes the crazy and thinks they crazy is true.Report

  6. Pinky says:

    I don’t want to play “your anti-Semitic conspiracy theory nutjob who gets excused by your leadership makes it ok that we have an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory nutjob who gets excused by our leadership”, because I don’t believe it. And I can’t say that your anti-Semitic conspiracy theory nutjob who gets excused by your leadership constitutes a worsening of your party, because Omar followed Farrakhan-fan Ellison. So can I just play one hand of BSDI and go have a nice weekend?Report

  7. Saul Degraw says:

    Well the usual suspects found a way to make this “Democrats are the real racists….”Report

    • Pinky in reply to Saul Degraw says:

      I assume you’re talking about me, and yes, typically they are. They’re not the only racists, but come on, like you’ve never noticed the anti-Semitic left? Anyway, given that the article was about leadership nipping this kind of thing in the bud, and commenters were talking about this being an increasing problem on the right, it’s reasonable to bring a little perspective.Report

  8. Stillwater says:

    BTW, if we’re serious about bud nipping then we should all agree that Trump should have been impeached a mere 4 months into his presidency for firing Jim Comey to “lift the cloud” of the Russia investigation, right? Of course we did do… 🙂Report

  9. Jaybird says:

    What are the tools at their disposal? Can they decaucus her?Report

  10. Bill Blake says:

    America’s basic political problem is that neither party is competent to run the federal government. Inevitably, the Democrats will fail to do anything about our decaying economy and when 2022 rolls around, they’re likely to lose in Congress. And if things get sufficiently worse, we get a Trumpist president possibly with Republican congressional majorities. That person will have to be a whole lot more competent than Trump–almost anyone would be–and we can then kiss our republic goodbye.

    But, really, the problem is not those in the federal government. It is *us*. We, with relatively few exceptions, want something for nothing–meaning that we want to steal it from someone else–and we want the government to support our particular prejudices and to benefit our particular tribe. We have abandoned the principles that made America, and our politicians merely reflect our immorality as a people. Blaming politicians–or the media or education or hedge funds or whoever–is mere scapegoating. Unless we take responsibility for our own lives and demand politicians who reflect our newly found morality, we are inevitably headed to despotism, and we have only ourselves to blame.Report

    • Philip H in reply to Bill Blake says:

      Point of order – the “federal government” is actually run by very competent career civil servants whose careers span presidents and Congressional majorities of both parties. We do our best with the tools (appropriations and statutes) we are given.

      Your beef is not about the RUNNING of government. Its about the PROCESS of elected politicians making decisions. Please call a spade a spade.Report

      • Bill Blake in reply to Philip H says:

        You’re confusing “running the government” with “doing the work required to make the government run”. They’re not the same things; civil servants no more run the government than UPS drivers run UPS. Those who set the government’s policies and direct the actions of its civil servants are the ones running the government. And my beef is neither with politicians (though I hold most of them in deep contempt) nor with civil servants, it is with We The People, who have chosen incompetent, not to mention evil, people to rule our country.Report

  11. Saul Degraw says:

    Basically the only thing this thread taught me is that Jews are props in a narrative and not seen as people. Every thing here is so predictable as to be pathetic but trolls gotta troll just like junkies need a fix I guess.Report

    • LeeEsq in reply to Saul Degraw says:

      A lot of us Jews think that the Left and the Right uses as props to bash the other side but ignore anti-Semitism when it comes from their side.Report

      • Chip Daniels in reply to LeeEsq says:

        This is true, and worth expanding.

        I’ve heard the same from both Jewish friends and Black people, that white liberals tend to use them as props but, are not reliable allies.

        As a Jewish friend told me once, Gentiles are nice enough but not to be trusted. The same Gentile who will smile and chat amiably about sports or the weather will, at the slightest spark or incident, be part of the howling mob outside your store smashing your windows.

        I’ve read the same sort of thing from Black people, that no matter how liberal or woke or progressive White people are, at the end of the day when a spark happens- the OJ trial, a mugging, a low income housing project proposal- will retreat into the worst sort of white racism.

        In my own mind, I put this in the same category as how people claim a religious creed of universal brotherhood but behave as anything but.
        One the one hand, the creed seems utterly ineffective at the one job it was supposed to do, but on the other, I guess having a creed and failing at it is still better than having a creed of nihilism.Report

        • LeeEsq in reply to Chip Daniels says:

          My observation is that a lot of the non-Jewish Left likes invoking anti-Semitism when they can use it as a cudgel against the White Right but not so much when the anti-Semite is from a group they would rather not criticize like Muslims or people of color or there is some other goal deemed more important. This is why you had big massive rallies against Apartheid South Africa but not so much about the Soviet persecution of their Jews, because that would mean siding with Reagan/America/Israel ewww, or how MENA Jews were kicked out once the MENA states became free because anti-colonialism is more important.Report

    • Pinky in reply to Saul Degraw says:

      Was that another shot at me? I don’t know, maybe that “usual suspects” comment has gotten under my skin, but I’ve spent years here stating and defending my opinions, and what you may be saying to be non-confrontational is striking me as passive-aggressive.Report

  12. Saul Degraw says:

    Maybe everyone should read this essay and reflect seriously instead of trolling?

    https://www.vox.com/22256258/marjorie-taylor-greene-jewish-space-laser-anti-semitism-conspiracy-theories

    “Put differently: The overarching structure of the modern Western conspiracy theory — a global cabal manipulating the world from behind the scenes for its own profit and power — is an anti-Semitic construct. Many of its most significant texts, like the infamous 1903 Russian forgery The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, were explicitly anti-Semitic.”Report

    • Chip Daniels in reply to Saul Degraw says:

      Well, although I lean towards the Mel Brooks side of the argument over how to handle Not-sees, I will grant you the seriousness of all of this.

      Specifically that anti-Semitism isn’t separate and apart from a general hatred for democracy and equality of persons. Once people accept the idea of a hierarchy of humanity where some are better than others, it can manifest in almost any direction and never stops until it is stopped by superior force.Report