The Unbearable Lightness of Veeping

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Andrew Donaldson

Born and raised in West Virginia, Andrew has since lived and traveled around the world several times over. Though frequently writing about politics out of a sense of duty and love of country, most of the time he would prefer discussions on history, culture, occasionally nerding on aviation, and his amateur foodie tendencies. He can usually be found misspelling/misusing words on Twitter @four4thefire and his writing website Yonderandhome.com

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21 Responses

  1. Avatar Kristin Devine
    Ignored
    says:

    Right after we watched the VP debate, we watched the Washington State Gubernatorial Debate hosted by the Washington State Debate Coalition. It was STUNNING the difference in the quality and toughness of the questions asked compared to both the presidential and vice-presidential debates. The candidates for governor were asked unflattering questions and actually forced to address their non-answers, by getting asked followup questions whenever they gave a fuzzy answer. The WSDC should be put in charge of the presidential debates – made me realize that debating could be an actually legit way of seeing what a candidate thinks instead of a meaningless pageant of sniping.Report

    • Avatar Slade the Leveller
      Ignored
      says:

      So, how did they get the candidates to answer the actual questions? Not that VP is gonna sway anyone anyway, but the American electorate got nothing but some fly jokes out of last night’s “debate”.Report

      • Avatar Jaybird
        Ignored
        says:

        I have, like, a couple of responses to this and it feels like they’re contradictory.

        Reddit, for example, got nothing but fly jokes out of last night. “BLACK FLIES MATTER” was the big one that I saw but, apparently, there are a million “Pence’s Fly” accounts on the twitters that exist now that didn’t two days ago.

        If the ratings for the VP debate are higher than the ratings for (googles) Big Brother, I’ll eat a bug. The American electorate was watching that. Maybe the Masked Singer? What the hell is the Masked Singer?

        What the hell? The 90210 guy went up against Mickey Rourke and Busta Rhymes?!?!?

        Anyway. I’d be tempted to say that the American electorate didn’t even get fly jokes out of last night.

        The only people who watched were people who already cared.Report

  2. Avatar Saul Degraw
    Ignored
    says:

    I am not so sure this does not change anything but it is hard to tell. Trump has been in free fall since his COVID diagnosis. A month ago, 538 gave Trump a 30 out of 100 chances of winning the election. Today his chance stands at 15 out of 100. The majority of 538’s scenarios have a Biden blow out of 100 electoral college votes or more. Also Biden’s approval rating is shooting up. For most of August and September, it hoovered at just over 50 percent. He is currently at 51.9 percent and going up. Trump is going down.

    Of course as Jesse notes, the commentators of OT are largely Gen X white dudes who seem especially impervious to ever noticing that Democratic policies are popular, Democratic politicians can be popular, and the Democratic Party is not always in disarray. Every successful Democratic election seems to hit middle aged Gen X white guys like a lightening bolt. “Who are all these Democrats? Where did they come from? Is there anything we can do about it? Ratfuck democracy and the vote? Okay!!!”

    As an example, a poll I saw yesterday stated that 61 percent of women felt that Harris won the debate and performed much better than Pence but among men 48 percent believed Harris won and performed better and 46 percent of men felt that Pence won the debate/performed better. I find it hard to believe that sexism and/or racism is not playing a part here.*

    Again, a lot of white guys seem to have a monomania definition of liberty and prosperity where it is all about making all the monies with a side of getting to bully people they deem “weirdo freaks.” So Mike Lee and other right-wing/”libertarian” dudes complaining about how liberals are anti-liberty sound like the jocks of high school who are shocked they no longer rule the roost at 45 or 55 or whenever. Mike Lee probably seethes that all the weirdo freaks were able to flee Utah for San Francisco, Los Angeles, Portland, Seattle, New York, or some other liberal city. Even Salt Lake City being liberal/progressive is too much for him.Report

  3. Avatar North
    Ignored
    says:

    I concur with your analysis. Considering that Biden’s raking in some of the best poll results of the campaign so far the news that the Veep debate likely won’t move the needle is unabashedly good for him. Biden doesn’t need change on this trajectory.Report

  4. Avatar Jaybird
    Ignored
    says:

    My take was boring as hell. It was “Oh, Republicans are saying that Pence won and Democrats are saying that Harris won” with a leavening of both sides arguing that the VP debate doesn’t matter. Which means that Pence didn’t move the ball and Trump needed Pence to move the ball.

    But now I’m seeing the word “mansplaining” with regards to the debate and accusing Pence of it?

    Which, gotta say, strikes me as a twitter-level analysis rather than a Nightly News-level analysis.

    Report

    • Avatar Jaybird
      Ignored
      says:

      Hell, maybe it’ll be a blessing in disguise in the future.

      “Canada does not want to renegotiate NAFTA. Is Justin Trudeau sexist?”
      “Kim Jong Un does not want to renegotiate nuclear fuel production. Does North Korea respect women?”
      “Israel does not want to purchase more F-35 fighter jets. Does Israel have a history of racism/sexism?”Report

    • Avatar Aaron David
      Ignored
      says:

      That, right there, the “mansplaining” BS?

      That is how you know that Pence won. If Kamala had a good showing, it would have been “Kamala – like a boss!” or somesuch. But it was all buzzword bingo, attempting to shore up the base.Report

  5. Avatar Saul Degraw
    Ignored
    says:

    https://twitter.com/Redistrict/status/1314219404847206403?s=20

    If this tweet holds up, Democrats are likely to gain more seats in the House. Josh Marshall floated a theory yesterday that McConnell told Trump to pull out of stimulus talks to throw him an anchor. In this theory, McConnell is predicting that Trump will lose bigly and so might Senate Republicans but he wants to make things difficult for the Democrats when they take charge in January and then he can come back in 2022 via his normal obstruction tactics.*

    Coming down with COVID might be the thing that caused Trump to have the floor come out from under him especially because he is obviously a lot sicker than he lets on and the WH seems to be a super spreading event. Pence did not have a good answer for this at the debate.

    *McConnell’s other gamble is that the Democratic Party will not retake the Senate and/or not have the votes to end the filibuster or to do anything about the Federal Courts constantly striking down their legislation.Report

    • Avatar Andrew Donaldson
      Ignored
      says:

      If you got an honest thought out of Mitch McConnell, his perfect scenario for this election is holding his majority in the Senate, being rid of Trump, and he doesn’t care what the house does since losing another dozen seats to the Democrats doesn’t change the power balance any.

      Whether he is actively working towards that end, I’ll leave to other to judge, but will remind you that he is Mitch McConnell.Report

      • Avatar Marchmaine
        Ignored
        says:

        Pretty much this. From McConnell’s view, anyway. For folks that are invested in the Republican Party as part of their identity, they are very concerned… but their concerns concern not McConnell. It is the fatal flaw and the sublime beauty of the system we have.Report

      • Avatar LeeEsq
        Ignored
        says:

        McConnell leaving the Senate would be one of the best things for the United States.Report

      • Avatar Saul Degraw
        Ignored
        says:

        I agree that this is probably what he wants. Whether he gets it or not is another question. Trump going down this fast is not good for McConnell. I can see a state voting for Trump but still electing a Democratic Senator. It is hard for me to imagine a state voting for Biden but still retaining a Republican Senator at this point. Colorado, Arizona, and Maine are likely Democratic gains. North Carolina is also more likely than not. Iowa is a toss up but I predict it will go R or D for both the races.

        If Democrats manage to win the electoral college votes for Georgia and Texas, maybe those states keep their R-Senators (this would be the people do not vote for Trump but vote for every other Republican scenario).Report

  6. Avatar Mike Schilling
    Ignored
    says:

    The two most interesting thing that happened last night:

    1. Pence refusing to say that Trump will go quietly if he loses.
    2. Pence is now attracting flies, like the dead wife in American Gods.Report

  7. Avatar George Turner
    Ignored
    says:

    I watched quite a bit of Frank Luntz’s focus group last night, and it told a very different story. Even the Biden leaners were horrified by Harris’s performance, and at least one or two flipped to Trump because of it. The pro-Biden black female member bailed – on Biden, saying there was no way Harris should be President, and given Biden’s health status, he probably wouldn’t be in office very long.

    From their descriptions of Harris, it’s obvious why she dropped out prior to Iowa with 2% support, and it’s obvious why she’s been almost non-existent on the campaign trail.Report

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