Wednesday Writs: Women’s Suffrage Turns 100

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Em Carpenter

Em was one of those argumentative children who was sarcastically encouraged to become a lawyer, so she did. She is a proud life-long West Virginian, and, paradoxically, a liberal. In addition to writing about society, politics and culture, she enjoys cooking, podcasts, reading, and pretending to be a runner. She will correct your grammar. You can find her on Twitter.

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25 Responses

  1. Avatar Philip H
    Ignored
    says:

    L-5: Good riddance. A huge part of the problem is officers not wanting to be held accountable for their actions. Seems they took the hint.Report

    • Avatar Oscar Gordon in reply to Philip H
      Ignored
      says:

      Concur. Cops who can’t trust themselves should leave.Report

    • Avatar Dark Matter in reply to Philip H
      Ignored
      says:

      12,069 cops in Colorado.

      If we assume they lose 10% a year that’s 1,200. So in a two month period we’d expect them to lose 200, and instead they lost about 240.

      Now if they lose about 12% a year that’s 1450, and in a two month period of time we’d expect them to lose 241, i.e. exactly how many they lost.

      What we can conclude from this is math is fun.Report

      • Avatar Em Carpenter in reply to Dark Matter
        Ignored
        says:

        We don’t really know the numbers but according to the article linked it’s higher than normal. Slightly.
        “Individually, police departments say since the bill became law, they’ve had more than the normal number of resignations and retirements, but none is able to conclude it’s the direct result of SB 217. The number of separations since the bill became law is slightly higher than the average number POST usually sees over the same time period, officials said. The state attorney general’s office declined to provide specific numbers.”Report

      • Avatar Jaybird in reply to Dark Matter
        Ignored
        says:

        So, for this to not be a big deal, we have to assume 10% attrition?Report

        • Avatar Dark Matter in reply to Jaybird
          Ignored
          says:

          Attrition rate for police officers is 14 percent according to North Carolina Criminal Justice Analysis Center study.

          I can see that cited multiple places. BJS.gov says a turnover rate of 11% to 14% is normal for towns of 6k or more, with town less than that having a turnover rate of 20%.

          This was a state reform so they’re going to have both.

          So I don’t see any reason to believe these numbers are higher than normal, they may be lower… although within a margin of error I expect they’re just “expected”.Report

          • Avatar Jaybird in reply to Dark Matter
            Ignored
            says:

            Then we’re in a place where we’re noticing that different cops are leaving than under the old system.

            The ones that the police unions are saying that it’s due to civil penalties are probably not the ones we want in there.

            The ones willing to work under the system who would have left under the old one? They’re better cops than the ones who left.Report

            • Avatar George Turner in reply to Jaybird
              Ignored
              says:

              I wouldn’t say that without looking at lots of examples. It’s possible that the cops who are leaving are the ones who have more civil assets to lose in a civil settlement, which would be your more experienced, calmer, older senior officers who have a nice house that’s all paid off.

              The article itself says “We’re scrambling to figure out the insurance bit, to prevent officers from losing their houses when they’re acting in good faith. I’m looking to retire and I don’t want to have to leave, but I don’t want myself and my family at risk.”

              So the officers will end up with the equivalent of malpractice insurance, which will then end up getting paid by the cities, which will cancel out the 5% they’d save from the officer’s part of the settlements, plus overhead.

              If that extra overhead is too large, it may incline some cities to instead farm out their police work to the Omni Consumer Products Corporation (OCP), which will cut costs by using ED-209s, which are good at general law enforcement but also capable of urban pacification.Report

              • Avatar Oscar Gordon in reply to George Turner
                Ignored
                says:

                I love the idea of malpractice insurance for cops! I think every cop should have some to protect their assets, and if a department finds itself getting priced out of the market, I think the Union should negotiate a group rate!

                Then the Union could offer that as a benefit.

                I’d love the Union to have a nice incentive to make sure officers behave.Report

            • Avatar Dark Matter in reply to Jaybird
              Ignored
              says:

              The ones that the police unions are saying that it’s due to civil penalties are probably not the ones we want in there.

              You’re putting a lot of trust in the police unions and their politically motivated statements.

              This reminds me of the whole “children in cages” argument. It turns out that it’s something we’ve always done and the pictures are just a way to score political points.

              Then we’re in a place where we’re noticing that different cops are leaving than under the old system.

              Are we? Do the police even know this bill was passed?

              I see no evidence that the number of cops leaving is outside of the expected range. So this month “X” cops left because they’re not willing to work in the system, but last month “X” cops left for money/health reasons.

              Apparently this month, no cops left because of money/health reasons.Report

            • Avatar Michael Cain in reply to Jaybird
              Ignored
              says:

              It would be interesting to see the ages involved. It wouldn’t surprise me if some officers who already qualify for a full pension decided to simply leave a year or two early as risk avoidance.Report

              • Avatar Dark Matter in reply to Michael Cain
                Ignored
                says:

                In order for it to be “different cops leaving”, this bill needs to have convinced some to stay.Report

              • Avatar Jaybird in reply to Dark Matter
                Ignored
                says:

                So I don’t see any reason to believe these numbers are higher than normal, they may be lower… although within a margin of error I expect they’re just “expected”.Report

              • Avatar Dark Matter in reply to Jaybird
                Ignored
                says:

                That’s my point.

                The number of cops leaving because of financial, age, or health reasons should be pretty constant.

                If we’re going to claim that the mix is different, then without higher numbers some of those groups need to stay. We’re not going to make them less old or more healthy, so that leaves increased pay.

                The much more likely alternative is this bill had No Effect At All, and the mix is exactly the same as before.

                This would mean the union is lying but whatever.Report

              • Avatar Michael Cain in reply to Dark Matter
                Ignored
                says:

                I was working from the assumption that 241 was somewhat higher than normal.

                Here’s a story that says Colorado Springs, 2nd largest city in the state, had a 5.9% turnover in the first 11 months of 2019, and that annual turnover had “peaked” in 2018 at 8.9%. It would be unsurprising if Colorado had a lower rate than the national average — that’s common in many employment fields here. It gets further complicated by officers moving from one department to another. If a cop from my suburb goes to the Denver department, that’s not a turnover at the state level.Report

              • Avatar Dark Matter in reply to Michael Cain
                Ignored
                says:

                That link is mostly about beating up on the El Paso office which has lost 71% of its officers in 5 years with it’s highest attrition yearly rate being just under 19%.

                So it’s comparing the area’s best office to it’s worse?

                Colorado Springs has a population of 478k (ish) people. El Paso county is 683k.

                My expectation is the BLS is the better source of information on this stat and while one (rich?) city can buck that trend for a while attrition is still a serious issue for the police as a whole.Report

              • Avatar Michael Cain in reply to Dark Matter
                Ignored
                says:

                I spent time on the budget staff for the Colorado state legislature. You would have to put a gun to my head to get me to blindly accept national BLS numbers on employment patterns at a detailed level — eg, turnover in a narrow employment category — as accurate for Colorado.

                As sizeable Colorado cities go, the Springs is not rich.Report

  2. Avatar Doctor Jay
    Ignored
    says:

    …nevertheless, she persisted.

    I see what you did there.Report

  3. Avatar George Turner
    Ignored
    says:

    The New York Times brutally cancelled Susan B. Anthony yesterday.

    She is also an increasingly divisive figure, adopted by anti-abortion forces and criticized for relegating Black suffragists to the sidelines. On Tuesday, Marjorie Dannenfelser, the president of the Susan B. Anthony List, an anti-abortion political group, and Cleta Mitchell, a lawyer who represents conservative groups, were in attendance as Mr. Trump made his announcement.

    He has pardoned or granted clemency to a number of people whom he personally knows or whose cases resonate with him, such as Rod R. Blagojevich, the former Illinois governor who was serving a prison sentence related to a conviction on corruption charges. Mr. Trump recently granted clemency to his longtime political adviser Roger J. Stone Jr., who was convicted on several charges stemming from the investigation into possible conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Russian officials.

    The pardon for Anthony was the 26th of his presidency and, like most others Mr. Trump has issued, it drew criticism from Democrats, including Kathy Hochul, the lieutenant governor of New York.

    “As highest ranking woman elected official in New York and on behalf of Susan B. Anthony’s legacy we demand Trump rescind his pardon.”

    All this, of course, fired up the usual woke folks, inspiring Tweets like:

    Susan B. Anthony’s legacy is one of defiance and protest against inequality and injustice (although for white women only). She would NEVER consent to a presidential pardon were she alive today.

    President Trump just “rape-pardoned” Susan B. Anthony.

    The SusanBAnthony hashtag is brutal. I doubt progressive will allow women to even vote in 2022.Report

  4. Avatar veronica d
    Ignored
    says:

    Anthony asked the man if this was how he customarily arrested a man, and he said it was not. Anthony allegedly presented her wrists for handcuffs, indicating her wish to be treated the same as a man would have been treated.

    What a badass.Report

  5. Avatar Kristin Devine
    Ignored
    says:

    Really enjoyed this. ThanksReport

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