From the Daily Mail: Deadliest city in America plans to disband its entire police force and fire 270 cops to deal with budget crunch

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Jaybird

Jaybird is Birdmojo on Xbox Live and Jaybirdmojo on Playstation's network. He's been playing consoles since the Atari 2600 and it was Zork that taught him how to touch-type. If you've got a song for Wednesday, a commercial for Saturday, a recommendation for Tuesday, an essay for Monday, or, heck, just a handful a questions, fire off an email to AskJaybird-at-gmail.com

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31 Responses

  1. Avatar Saul Degraw
    Ignored
    says:

    1. This story is from 2012.

    2. This story is from the Daily Mail.Report

  2. Avatar Dark Matter
    Ignored
    says:

    The old dept was known for corruption and absenteeism, the new dept wasn’t union but in 2013 they re-unionized.

    Sounds like they fired everyone and restarted.Report

  3. Avatar Aaron David
    Ignored
    says:

    Sometimes a fresh start is what is needed.

    The lower murder rate speaks volumes.Report

  4. Avatar Jaybird
    Ignored
    says:

    There it is:

    Report

    • Avatar Dark Matter in reply to Jaybird
      Ignored
      says:

      I’m in favor of it.

      If you’re looking for a way to impress the various police powers-that-be (high level police, the union) that they need to get rid of bad apples and not save them, then you need to give them some sort of motivation.

      Same reason why I’m in favor of 9+ digit court judgements against institutions that enable sex criminals who work for them.Report

    • Avatar Michael Cain in reply to Jaybird
      Ignored
      says:

      Out of curiosity, and because it used to be my job to ask questions like this…

      How many specialty services does the MPD provide? For example, laboratory tests, forensic accounting, bomb squad, federal liaison? How many of the surrounding suburbs are dependent on those services? If the MPD is disbanded, how many years will it take to reconstruct those specialty capabilities? Or to have them picked up by law enforcement at some higher level?Report

      • Avatar Jaybird in reply to Michael Cain
        Ignored
        says:

        Well, my answer to the “specialty services” question was “amateur Rolfing” but I don’t know that anybody knows what that is anymore.

        Anyway. The good thing about your questions is that they all have answers (even though I don’t know what they are). Lab tests and forensic accounting strike me as things that are likely to benefit from having a nearby university in the short term (and likely medium term as well) and the federal liaison position strikes me as easy to fill (I imagine that there’s always someone looking to retire in a few years who wants to finally move away from Virginia).

        As for the bomb squad… I don’t know. How often do they get called out? (And, honestly, I’d be suspicious of any jump in numbers following the old bomb squad being disbanded.)Report

  5. Avatar Jaybird
    Ignored
    says:

    An interesting thread that deals with this (and covers some of what Michael Cain gets into above):

    Report

  6. Avatar Jaybird
    Ignored
    says:

    I have seen in a couple of places (on twitter, of course) where the argument is between “Defund the Police!” and “Abolish the Police!” with the defunders being painted as accommodationists.

    I don’t know whether this is indicative of The Future or is indicative of The Disconnect.Report

  7. Avatar Jaybird
    Ignored
    says:

    I’ve seen several tweets linking to this article saying that Minneapolis is going to disband its police department:

    This follows the Mayor getting booed out of a rally for saying that he doesn’t think that Minneapolis ought to disband its police department.

    This will be one heck of a data point.Report

  8. Avatar greginak
    Ignored
    says:

    Disband means they are doing a radical change to have a different department. That isn’t really what disband exactly means but whatevs. It’s the word of the times so as long as it leads to a good end, more power to them.

    What seems far more interesting is on the tweeters people are saying hundreds of NY cops are retiring along with the comish. If true this is almost certainly a good thing. This is assuming they are retiring because they see which way the wind is blowing on reform and know its coming for them. If so then the ones retiring are very much the ones who should let the door hit them on the ass just to rub some salt in the wound.Report

    • Avatar Jaybird in reply to greginak
      Ignored
      says:

      I admit that I am always vaguely irritated when I hear some variant of “Oh, by ‘abolish the police’, we don’t mean ‘abolish law enforcement’, what we mean is ‘institute reforms'”.

      But, hey. If it moves product, it moves product. It’s not like the whole “we need to institute reforms” message worked.Report

      • Avatar greginak in reply to Jaybird
        Ignored
        says:

        Reform, typically very substantial, is what almost all the abolish people want. But people want simple three word slogans so that is what we get. If we get reforms it wont’ be because of the slogan it will be because of the giant protests.

        My guess is it wont’ take more then one or two big cities doing something like what Minneapolis is looking at to bring about an attitude change among many other cops. That would be a good thing.Report

        • Avatar Jaybird in reply to greginak
          Ignored
          says:

          You wanna see an interview that won’t help? Here’s an interview that won’t help.

          Report

          • Avatar InMD in reply to Jaybird
            Ignored
            says:

            I will never understand how anyone can get to a place where they don’t realize how stupid statements like that sound to normal people.Report

            • Avatar Aaron David in reply to InMD
              Ignored
              says:

              They circled the wagons so long ago that they cannot even discern that there are other voices.Report

              • Avatar InMD in reply to Aaron David
                Ignored
                says:

                Is it inability to consider other voices or complete detachment from reality and replacement with make believe critical theory nonsense? Like, the question was ‘who do I call if there’s a burglar in the house?’ And her answer to that is ‘check your privilege’? That’s nuts.Report

      • Avatar Stillwater in reply to Jaybird
        Ignored
        says:

        Have you seen Amash’s list of reforms?

        Justin Amash@justinamash

        End qualified immunity.
        End civil asset forfeiture.
        End the drug war.
        End overcriminalization.
        End no-knock warrants.
        End militarization of police.
        End mandatory minimums.

        It’s a pretty good start at the federal level.Report

        • Avatar greginak in reply to Stillwater
          Ignored
          says:

          They dont’ need to talk about defunding the cops. Going after CAF would be good on it’s own and do much the same job.Report

        • Avatar Jaybird in reply to Stillwater
          Ignored
          says:

          Yeah, that’s a great list! And it covers a lot of the onesy-twosy “but doing only (your suggestion) won’t fix the problem!”

          I’ve long thought that Federal Sentencing Guidelines were not only wacky but, more importantly, an infringement on the separate powers thing. But the War on Drugs was the War on Drugs and that carries with it all kinds of pathologies. Civil Asset Forfeiture was *GREAT* when the cops liberated a cigarette boat used by a drug dealer. Confiscated a Lambo. Confiscated something that made you just ooze envy when you walked past a movie poster that had it on it (because you weren’t ever likely to walk past a real one unless you went to Vegas or something). That sort of thing made asset forfeiture *FUN*.

          And hearing that it’s used to take away the $800 POS car from someone who was found smoking a joint on their own back porch to be auctioned as scrap for some junkyard is depressing as hell. That’s not why we did that.

          Which seems to indicate that the cops themselves have a problem that they’re auctioning off $800 POS cars that they take from some poor schmuck smoking a joint on his own back porch.

          The entire system is just so captured and needs reform. It’s daunting because the people who point out doing (one thing) won’t fix the problem are right. There are so very many things wrong that we not only have to do multiple things, we have to do multiple things over long periods of time.

          But Justin Amash has a good list.Report

        • Avatar CJColucci in reply to Stillwater
          Ignored
          says:

          Why was he ever a Republican to begin with?Report

    • Avatar DensityDuck in reply to greginak
      Ignored
      says:

      they say: “disband the police”
      they mean: “rebrand the police and reorganize the management”Report

      • Avatar Michael Cain in reply to DensityDuck
        Ignored
        says:

        I suspect a lot of them also mean, “Substantial changes in the hiring and firing criteria.” The available personnel information is thin, but Chauvin appears to have been hired on the basis of his experience as a military police officer with little or no other formal training, and averaged almost one personnel-file-worthy complaint per year over his entire career.

        My suburban city’s (pop 120K, about 30% the size of Minneapolis) police personnel policies have up sides and down sides, but Chauvin wouldn’t have been hired (insufficient formal education) and if he had been, would probably have been dismissed after a few years (too many complaints, no improvement).Report

  9. Avatar Carl Schwent
    Ignored
    says:

    Two things:

    First, on Camden, there is a great interview on NPR that you can read or listen to at https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/06/08/872416644/former-chief-of-reformed-camden-n-j-force-police-need-consent-of-the-people

    Second, how about “disband and replace”? The hard part will be finding a replacement and the transition, but there are some models. I do remember though that the Republicans promised to “repeal and replace” Obamacare, only they had no replacement. They finally went for repeal without replacement, before luckily failing.Report

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