From Reason: Jo Jorgensen Wins Libertarian Party Presidential Nomination

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Jaybird

Jaybird is Birdmojo on Xbox Live and Jaybirdmojo on Playstation's network. He's been playing consoles since the Atari 2600 and it was Zork that taught him how to touch-type. If you've got a song for Wednesday, a commercial for Saturday, a recommendation for Tuesday, an essay for Monday, or, heck, just a handful a questions, fire off an email to AskJaybird-at-gmail.com

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  1. Avatar Jaybird
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    says:

    If you voted for Harry Browne in 1996, you’ve voted for Jo once before (she was his VP choice).Report

  2. Avatar Mike Schilling
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    says:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jo_Jorgensen&source=post_page—————————#Political_positions

    She says the government’s response to COVID-19 is “the biggest assault on our liberties in our lifetime”, due to […] restrictions on individual behavior, such as stay-at-home orders […]Report

  3. Avatar Jaybird
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    says:

    Aaaaand they have chosen their VP nominee as well: Spike Cohen (he was running as Vermin Supreme’s VP).

    Report

  4. Avatar Doctor Jay
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    says:

    Is there really a person in this world named Vermin Supreme, or is this some in-joke that I don’t know?Report

    • Avatar Jaybird in reply to Doctor Jay
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      says:

      He’s Real. And he’s amazing.

      He’s pretty much the ultimate Protest Candidate. I think it’s kind of a pity that he didn’t win because he is entertaining as heck and throws issues into stark relief (for example, at the Libertarian Zoom debates, when asked a question about legalizing marijuana, instead of answering, he lit a joint).

      But he’s also a “Look, The Emperor may not be butt nekkid, but that’s a jock strap and there ain’t nothin’ else” candidate and if the Libertarian Party Proper wanted to maintain a façade of respectability… yeah, they pretty much had to go for the “serious” candidate instead of the fool.

      2024, however, is right around the corner. Arguably the most important election of our lifetimes.Report

      • Avatar Chip Daniels in reply to Jaybird
        Ignored
        says:

        You’re familiar with the history of the Yippies, who ran an actual pig for President in 1968?
        https://actipedia.org/project/pigasus-presidentReport

        • Avatar Jaybird in reply to Chip Daniels
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          says:

          Oh, yeah. I also remember thinking, in 1984 and 1988, “Why in the heck is Pat Paulsen running for president! This is serious!”

          I got inordinately angry at news shows that deigned to give him a 2 minute segment.

          I was so much older then.

          I’m younger than that now.Report

          • Avatar Chip Daniels in reply to Jaybird
            Ignored
            says:

            I’m probably not the first, second, of millionth person to note that not taking politics seriously is itself a sign of privilege.

            Which brings us back to Karen wanting to speak to the manager because being asked to wear a mask makes her a latter day Nelson Mandela.Report

            • Avatar Jaybird in reply to Chip Daniels
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              says:

              And I am not the first to note that embracing the status quo is a sign of privilege.

              Chip, Jo Jorgensen is an example of the Libertarians taking politics seriously.

              It’s support for Vermin that is the act of communicating that you’re yelling that “THIS IS ABSURD WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!” (another thing that only privileged people can get away with).Report

              • Avatar Chip Daniels in reply to Jaybird
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                says:

                …embracing the status quo is a sign of privilege.

                I don’t think this statement has any power to explain the situation.

                First, “the status quo” lacks any definition.

                Trump wants to reinforce white male privilege, but overturn much of the New Deal establishment; Is he “embracing the status quo”?

                Biden wants to reinforce the New Deal and be more inclusive of minority interests; Is he “embracing the status quo”?

                Jorgenson wants to reinforce existing property rights and individual liberties while overturning regulations; Is she “embracing the status quo”?

                All of these candidates are embracing some piece of the status quo, and wanting to overturn some other piece.

                Secondly, even the most oppressed and powerless person gains power and agency through some part of the status quo; The arrestee who is given Miranda rights, or single mother on food stamps;

                If these people embrace these existing programs, are they expressing privilege?Report

              • Avatar Jaybird in reply to Chip Daniels
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                says:

                All of these candidates are embracing some piece of the status quo, and wanting to overturn some other piece.

                Huh. Should we, instead, look at what they’re trying to keep and what they’re trying to abandon and whether those things are good things or bad things or what instead of pointing out the likely motives of people who support them?

                If these people embrace these existing programs, are they expressing privilege?

                Do you think that noticing that we’ve gone from “you’re privileged!” to “well… let’s discuss Privilege Theory” is an indicator of Privilege?Report

              • Avatar Chip Daniels in reply to Jaybird
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                says:

                I’ve noticed we’ve stopped talking about the status quo.

                I don’t think it is debatable about whether people like Jaybird and Chip, and the vast majority of the Libertarian Party are privileged.

                We are.
                That’s not a criticism, its just an observable fact.

                What I’m asserting with my reference to Karen is that privileged people often advocate for change, but only out of a narrow self interest which is of no interest to other groups who experience far more oppression.

                By comparison, there are plenty of liberal Karens too, who have narrow interests. But what the Democratic Party of Obama and Biden has done successfully is align the narrow interests of a broad range of people into a broad coalition.

                So you have privileged people like Chip, and unprivileged people like that lady in the elevator, who both can support the same candidate.

                I’m just not seeing that in the Libertarian Party. It doesn’t seem capable or even interested in marrying the concerns of a privileged Reason subscriber to the concerns of people like that lady in the elevator.Report

              • Avatar Jaybird in reply to Chip Daniels
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                says:

                I imagine that if the Libertarian Party were to try to talk to that lady in the elevator, they’d talk about stuff like Criminal Justice Reform, Drug War Reform, and School Choice.

                And, yeah, she’d smile and nod and say something like “I wish Biden would incorporate some of that!”

                And then vote for Biden anyway.

                “But Biden wrote the Patriot Act! Biden will re-normalize trade with China! Biden wrote the Crime Bill in the 90’s!”

                And… nothing. All of those things just wouldn’t matter, would they?Report

              • Avatar Jaybird in reply to Jaybird
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                says:

                I mean, she just tweeted this:

                Report

              • Avatar Chip Daniels in reply to Jaybird
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                says:

                College educated white guy #1: “I don’t think the Libertarians care much about the concerns of people of color.”

                College educated white guy #2:”Sure they do! Look at this platform!”

                College educated white guy #1: “Wow, you’ve convinced me!”

                I mean, I’ve actually had this exchange with other liberals who can’t figure out why those women in South Carolina are so enamored of Biden as opposed to Bernie/ Harris/Warren/Etc.

                What liberals have been forced to accept is what college educated white folks who write blogs and essays think is important to people of color isn’t necessarily what they themselves think is important.Report

              • Avatar Brandon Berg in reply to Jaybird
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                says:

                For the left, gratis >>> libre. It doesn’t matter how far ahead of the curve Libertarians are on civil liberties; refusing to get aboard the Free Shit Express is unforgiveable.

                That said, third-party candidates just aren’t electable. The only way for libertarians to make real progress is to get one or both major parties to make concessions to get us on board. If we can’t do that, then there’s no way we can win a three-way election. I’ll vote for the LP candidate as a fish-you to both parties, but if I thought my vote had a non-negligible chance of affecting the election, I’d hold my nose, vote for Biden, and then go home and spend three hours trying to scrub myself clean in the shower.Report

              • Avatar DensityDuck in reply to Brandon Berg
                Ignored
                says:

                “For the left, gratis >>> libre.”

                I don’t think so. I think it’s more like “we don’t care what you’ll fight for, we care what you won’t fight for, and if you won’t fight for the things I consider important then I’m not supporting you, no matter how much else we agree on.”Report

              • Avatar Truth in reply to DensityDuck
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                says:

                Libertarians: talking a good game on civil rights, never doing shit about them in real life. And if you’re old enough to remember history they’re the dishonest crowd that came up with the idea of renaming Jim Crow as “freedom of association” doubletalk so they can never be trusted when it comes to civil rights in any event.Report

              • Avatar Jaybird in reply to Truth
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                says:

                I’m beginning to suspect that “wokeness” is just a way to acceptably keep schools segregated.

                This is in San Francisco. Arguably the most progressive city in the country (if it’s not, it’s in the top three of every list out there).

                And this is what happens there. They talk a good game, I guess.

                There’s a lot of “talking a good game” out there.

                If I were a Biden supporter, I’d probably want “you shouldn’t pay attention to what people say!” a centerpiece of my Biden support. “What they say doesn’t mean anything!”

                But I would probably have trouble trying to get people to not notice that I was arguing this on a discussion board.Report

              • Avatar Truth in reply to Jaybird
                Ignored
                says:

                An unexpected consequence, particularly one that the district is aware of and trying to find ways to counteract, isn’t fair to label as a “consequence of wokeness” or any other dishonest sneer description.

                The historical reality is that you can get libertarians to say they support “in principle” actual civil rights easily, but when you press them for details it always comes back to “well do nothing and the problem will go away” or some other variant of magickal-thinking nonsense. Meanwhile, libertarians are far more interested in allying with republicans to support the “civil rights” of the guy who wants to have the whites-only restaurant or the no-gays-allowed shop, ignoring the civil rights to equal participation in society and equivalent rights of citizenship that ought to be afforded the minorities being discriminated against.

                Let me guess though Jaybird, you’re a pasty white cis/het guy who never had to deal with those realities in any way that actually affected you, so you’re very comfortable mouthing platitudes with the libertarians while doing nothing constructive to protect real civil rights?Report

              • Avatar Jaybird in reply to Truth
                Ignored
                says:

                You mean like commenting on a message board about how much I support Biden and how much I hate people who don’t?

                You’re right.

                I don’t do anything constructive like that.Report

              • Avatar Truth in reply to Jaybird
                Ignored
                says:

                I’m simply disinterested in the joke party that has never stood for civil rights in any meaningful way, let alone been “way ahead of the curve on civil rights”.

                Come back when you actually do something other than supporting the “rights” of racists and bigots over the rights of their victims. Because all I’ve ever seen from libertarians is handwaving magickal-thinking nonsense about how if everyone became a libertarian racism and bigotry would magically go away. They can’t explain how their policies would work to address the real problems of racism and bigotry that have real effects on real people, mostly because libertarian “thinking” requires living in a fantasyland.Report

              • Avatar Jaybird in reply to Truth
                Ignored
                says:

                I’ve no doubt you’re pleased with how Biden has stood on civil rights in meaningful ways and how he dealt with the “rights” of racists and bigots over the rights of their victims.

                Indeed, Libertarians pale in comparison.Report

              • Avatar DensityDuck in reply to Truth
                Ignored
                says:

                obvious troll is obvious, lolReport

              • Avatar DensityDuck in reply to Chip Daniels
                Ignored
                says:

                “I’ve noticed we’ve stopped talking about the status quo.”

                do you, like, forget that you posted things

                because IN THE COMMENT BEFORE THIS ONE you were crabbing about how “‘the status quo lacks any definition” and has “[no] power to explain the situation”

                and now you’re upset because Jaybird…isn’t talking about it further? So he stopped talking about the thing you said was irrelevant and you’re now criticizing him for doing that?

                ?

                ??Report

            • Avatar Brandon Berg in reply to Chip Daniels
              Ignored
              says:

              I’m probably not the first, second, of millionth person to note that not taking politics seriously is itself a sign of privilege.

              That makes a certain degree of intuitive sense, I suppose, but in reality, interest in politics is positively correlated with education and income.Report

    • Avatar Saul Degraw in reply to Doctor Jay
      Ignored
      says:

      He’s real and he is a joke for miscreants who think politics is about consumerist want and 4chan adolescent, immature nihilism instead of about enacting policies to help the most amount of people possible and solve problems facing the country and the world.Report

  5. Avatar Truth
    Ignored
    says:

    Libertarians: anarchist racists who like weed, and lack the reading comprehension abilities to understand the constitution.

    #Karen2020 #SheWantsToSpeakToTheManager #SheWillCallTheCopsOnBrownFolksReport

    • Avatar Jaybird in reply to Truth
      Ignored
      says:

      I look forward to hearing your stories about phone banking for Biden.

      Please write a post about them. I think they’d be illuminating!Report

      • Avatar Truth in reply to Jaybird
        Ignored
        says:

        I phone banked for Warren thanks. Libertarians are still jokes.Report

        • Avatar Jaybird in reply to Truth
          Ignored
          says:

          Not phone banking for Biden?

          Well, attacking Libertarians is probably more emotionally satisfying than arguing for Biden.

          God knows, if I had to pick between the two, the former would require a lot less effort and I wouldn’t feel like I was lying to myself.

          And I’ve got *SYMPATHY* for libertarians!Report

          • Avatar Truth in reply to Jaybird
            Ignored
            says:

            No, I just don’t give the time of day to dishonest jokes who want to spread conspiracy theories and slander about Biden. I will do my part when the phone banking opportunities arise, but phone banking is pretty much done in my state since the primary passed for now.

            Biden wasn’t my first choice but the libertarian nomination is a joke as always, and even if they weren’t, voting for a joke party when the republicans are actively trying to harm my family would be the dumbest thing in the world to do.Report

  6. Avatar CJColucci
    Ignored
    says:

    What’s so wrong with supporting a “pasty white cis/het guy”? With two exceptions, no party with an chance to win the Presidency has ever offered us anything else, with the possible exception of James Buchanan. And the two known exceptions, as is well known, won.Report

  7. Avatar Jaybird
    Ignored
    says:

    I imagine that, among other debates, the debate over the 2nd Amendment has changed.

    Jo has tweeted this, if you’re wondering where she stands on the issue:

    Report

  8. Avatar Jaybird
    Ignored
    says:

    Jo’s statements on Policing Reform:

    Report

    • Avatar greginak in reply to Jaybird
      Ignored
      says:

      I wonder where she stands on heavily funding various social services in place of a lot of cop functions. I see a lot of reform people pushing that hard.

      That 2a tweet is hilariously bad so she is good for laugh.Report

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