The Revolution Will be Televised on Fox News After All

Andrew Donaldson

Andrew Donaldson

Born and raised in West Virginia, Andrew has since lived and traveled around the world several times over. Though frequently writing about politics out of a sense of duty and love of country, most of the time he would prefer discussions on history, culture, occasionally nerding on aviation, and his amateur foodie tendencies. He can usually be found misspelling/misusing words on Twitter @four4thefire and his writing website Yonder and Home.

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41 Responses

  1. Avatar InMD says:

    I know there are a lot of Bernie skeptics here at OT but this kind of thing is why he is compelling to people, in spite of all the conventional reasons he shouldn’t be. Yea he fudges but there’s a core authenticity to him and a willingness to get into the ring that is unmistakably anti-tribal. We could do a lot worse. Hell we are doing a lot worse.

    I will now sit in the corner and take my Bernie Bro lumps.Report

    • Avatar Maribou in reply to InMD says:

      FWIW, not being most in favor as him of a candidate and saying stuff like “Great, another billionaire?”…

      doesn’t mean I wouldn’t be behind him one hundred percent if he wins the candidacy and even more so as a President.

      My objections are relative. And I think the Bernie Bro stuff, if people are casting that nett wide enough to include even you, is just dumb.

      So there may not be as many skeptics as you were counting…. at least by one.

      Good post, @fourthefire.Report

      • Avatar InMD in reply to Maribou says:

        I was mostly joking. All I meant is I respect him a lot despite a number of quibbles of my own and the perception that he isn’t viable.

        He’s hardly the only ‘Democrat’ I’d vote for and I don’t think anyone has ever actually called me a Bernie Bro here.Report

        • Avatar pillsy in reply to InMD says:

          I actually had no idea it was a joke, except for being self-deprecating.

          But if I were a Bernie Bro I would absolutely call myself a Bernie Bro.Report

    • Avatar North in reply to InMD says:

      I’d echo Maribou in saying that if crazy Uncle Bernie gets the nomination then I’ll back him as he’s infinitely better than Trump. In a lot of ways he’s somewhat the anti-Trump.
      That said, he is CRAZY Uncle Bernie. He’s got forty years of history of snuggling up to the Soviets which is… umm… not good and he still wheezes about “revolution” when asked how exactly he intends to make his extremely leftist and extremely ambitious goals into policy. I think he’s too far left to win, I think he’s too much himself to win and I fear he’s too old. But I think Bernie’s heart is in a good place and I hold no ill will towards him. If he manages to pull off this primary, which to be clear I hope he doesn’t, then he’ll deserve the nomination and the Presidency.Report

    • Avatar pillsy in reply to InMD says:

      “Bernie skeptic” feels like it describes me almost perfectly.

      I dunno, though, I don’t hate the guy or anything, and if he’s the nominee I’ll fight just as hard to get him over the top as anybody else. He’s OK.

      Mostly I worry that he’s incredibly old to be President. I hate that this country is turning more into a gerontocracy every day.

      Trump: 72
      Pelosi: 78
      McConnell: 77

      Even John Roberts is 66, but we can expect the ongoing delight of having him lead the Court until he’s at least 80.Report

      • Avatar Mike Dwyer in reply to pillsy says:

        “Mostly I worry that he’s incredibly old to be President. I hate that this country is turning more into a gerontocracy every day.”


      • Avatar InMD in reply to pillsy says:

        Well I definitely get the age thing and some of North’s criticisms (though I think the Soviet coddling lacks bite nearly 30 years out from the Soviet Union actually existing).

        Maybe it’s Bernie’s age that allows him to do what he did here but I just can’t see any of the other candidates having the guts to dive head first into hostile territory. My personal perception is that national level Dems tend to either be too polished or, lately, so bogged up kowtowing to every random shibbeloth of some subset in the coalition, that their message gets lost.

        And who could’ve guessed how apparently open to him the audience would be? Luck favors the bold, not the poll tested or the box checkers. It’s nice to see someone on the left who gets that, even if it is our old socialist dinosaur.Report

        • Avatar pillsy in reply to InMD says:

          I think both Bernie and most of the other Dems are making solid strategic decisions.

          Bernie, despite having a real shot at the brass ring, is still the outsider. The members of the Dem base with the strongest partisan bent, who are going to be mad at candidates who go on Fox for consorting with the enemy, are already unlikely to Feel the Bern.

          Other more solidly positioned candidates have more to lose.Report

          • Avatar Mike Dwyer in reply to pillsy says:

            I think Harris will implode at some point because she will try to check too many Progressive boxes. Warren is a mess for lots of reasons. So many interesting folks on that side to watch. Booker is probably the most interesting because he has been in the national spotlight for so long, and seems positioned to be a media darling, but I’m also curious as to how Progressive he is willing to go.

            My main predictions for Phase 1 is that everyone agrees to gang up on Biden and Sanders and push them out, then deal with each other. Of course, I’m also neck-deep in GoT at the moment so perhaps it won’t be quite so made-for-TV.Report

            • Avatar pillsy in reply to Mike Dwyer says:

              Booker is really weird.

              I’m a constituent. I like him. I voted for him for Senate twice and I’m glad he represents me.

              But the guy is weird. Nothing specific, or even negative, just quirky.

              Is he too weird to be President?

              Well, I don’t think so anymore.Report

        • Avatar James K in reply to InMD says:

          though I think the Soviet coddling lacks bite nearly 30 years out from the Soviet Union actually existing

          Would you feel the same way for someone who coddled the Nazis? After all it’s been 70 years since Nazi Germany existed.

          As I’ve noted on this site before, ‘socialism’ is a term too vague to be useful these days, and some kinds of socialism worry me a lot more than others. Someone who speaks of socialism and revolution and has a history of being fond of the Soviet Union? That’s very much at the worrying end of the spectrum for me. Not because he would necessarily go full Lenin if he were in power, but because it implies a fondness for ideas that, even in dilute form, would be horribly destructive.Report

  2. Avatar Slade the Leveller says:

    Couldn’t agree more with this post. America needs less, not more, tribalism.Report

  3. Avatar North says:

    I disagree with your final section Andrew. I think it’s excellent that the candidates are braving the lions in the Fox News bubble and it’s even better that they’re doing well at it. I still think that it was the correct decision for the Democratic Party to eliminate Fox as a venue for debates. Debates are far more straight laced and constrained than a town hall and they’re higher stakes. Fox has been exposed as being a virtual arm of the Republican Party (or arguably the GOP is an arm of Fox) in a way that none of the other media companies remotely are to the Democrats. The party should not be treating Fox as just any old media company and they assuredly shouldn’t be letting Fox be involved in one of their national debates. Leave treating with Fox to the individual candidates.Report

    • Avatar Road Scholar in reply to North says:

      Fox has been exposed as being a virtual arm of the Republican Party (or arguably the GOP is an arm of Fox) in a way that none of the other media companies remotely are to the Democrats.

      Did you notice Trump’s wording?

      “Very strange, and now we </strong<have @donnabrazile?"Report

      • Avatar North in reply to Road Scholar says:

        I’ve been trying not to. Honestly, I still think it’s better Trump won* than any other Republican hack but it’d be really great to get that clown out of office. Preferably in a landslide.

        *Though in the glare of hindsight I wonder if HRC wouldn’t have won against a more conventional Republican. They wouldn’t have had the same draw in the Midwest that he had.Report

  4. Avatar Jaybird says:

    Enforcing bubbles is something that you do when you’re in power.

    Not when you’re hoping to get it.

    Not going on Fox is insanity.

    Refuse to go on Fox when you’re the only dealer and can offer sweetness to CNN/MSNBC.

    I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.Report

    • Avatar North in reply to Jaybird says:

      To be clear, as far as I know the DNC has not banned candidates from interacting with Fox; they simply have refused to let Fox host a nominees debate.Report

      • Avatar Jaybird in reply to North says:

        Maybe they’re thinking that the ratings will be so high that they’ll kick some viewers over to CNN/MSNBC.

        Scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours.

        I will withhold judgment on how good of a plan this is. (At first glance, the ratings numbers don’t inspire me to think that having the debates only on CNN/MSNBC is a good idea for the dems… but, hey. I’m wrong all the time.)Report

  5. Avatar North says:

    And now Uncle Joe has jumped in. I had hoped he’d pass. Ah well.Report

  6. Avatar pillsy says:

    The problem with Fox isn’t just its relationship with the Administration, though. That’s just a pretext.

    The problem is that just about everybody who’s even the tiniest bit to the Left absolutely hates it. Oh, and also it’s one of the most destructive organizations in American political life. That’s not great either.Report

  7. Avatar George Turner says:

    But Fox has Martha MacCallum, who makes everybody all tingly even though her son is a linebacker for Notre Dame.Report

  8. Avatar Saul Degraw says:

    1. I think North and Pillsy are right here that it is good to have a no debates policy for Fox News. Fox News is a propaganda wing for the GOP and almost every Democratic or Democratic leaning voter dislikes it intensely.

    2. Bernie and Biden might have brands that let them survive going on Fox News and not be seen as turn-coats.

    3. This is asymmetrical. Democratic candidates are expected to reach out to conservative vorters and empathize but no one expects Republican candidates to do the same for Democratic voters.

    4. I’m still not in the Bernie Woulda Won crowd.Report