Wednesday Writs for 1/30

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Em Carpenter

Em was one of those argumentative children who was sarcastically encouraged to become a lawyer, so she did. She is a proud life-long West Virginian, and, paradoxically, a liberal. In addition to writing about society, politics and culture, she enjoys cooking, podcasts, reading, and pretending to be a runner. She will correct your grammar. You can find her on Twitter.

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22 Responses

  1. Avatar Jaybird
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    says:

    L5: The Boomers will never retire. That said, if you make age discrimination a thing, it’s going to be a thing all the way.

    L6: This is infuriating. The worst part is that even if (when) the fines are paid, nobody involved will feel a pinch in the slightest. (Maybe to their pride, but that’ll be forgotten after a weekend or two.)Report

    • Avatar PD Shaw in reply to Jaybird
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      says:

      L6: Mostly, litigation costs are being awarded because of a fee-shifting statute intended to encourage lawsuits. The plaintiff missed a flight, and even if that violated her rights, the monetary damages were going be very slight compared to the cost of litigating those rights. Some of what they are talking about is wrongdoing, but a lot of those legal fees would have been awarded anyway. The fact that it was a case of first impression, necessitating two appeals, just reinforces the importance of fee-shifting. And of course, the fee-shifting statue’s purpose is also to make these types of cases easier the next time they come up.Report

    • Avatar Saul Degraw in reply to Jaybird
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      says:

      L5: The question as to why Boomers won’t retire is interesting from an anthropological prospective rather than a legal one. Plenty of boomers do retire or quasi-retire but others either can’t afford to and/or don’t want to. I suspect that the Boomers have very different views of retirement than their parents because they did not have their formative years during the Great Depression and WWII. Many of them could have been the first in their families to get white-collar work thanks to the New Deal/Great Society. The Boomers who had good white-collar jobs were in their prime during the live-to-work 1980s, not the Great Depression.Report

      • Avatar PD Shaw in reply to Saul Degraw
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        says:

        Yeah, the Boomers as a class are more educated than their past cohorts, and have made more money than past and future cohorts. They also took on more debt and are entering retirement with mortgages that previous generations lacked.

        All of that means is that they started working life later, more frequently at desk jobs that are not as physically debilitating and possibly interesting. They earned good money, were future optimistic about taking on debt, and are used to a higher level of spending. They are entering retirement with one of the three tent posts (home ownership) impaired, and probably weren’t eligible for a pension.Report

        • Avatar Saul Degraw in reply to PD Shaw
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          says:

          It would be interesting to study past generations and see if people in white-collar professions retired later (or not at all) compared to someone who worked in construction. There are lots of doctors and lawyers from older generations who kept on into their 60s and older.

          Now this is not always good, I think every city has a story about a lawyer who stayed working too long and ended up committing malpractice out of sheet memory problems.Report

          • Avatar PD Shaw in reply to Saul Degraw
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            says:

            I think one of the changes over the last 50 years has been an increase in leisure time, which has unequally been shared.

            In 1965, the average work week for nonsupervisory workers was 38.8 hours and today it is 33.7 hours. For goods producing jobs, the average is 40.9 hours, while for private services it is 33.3 hours. How one feels about the increased leisure is probably going to depend on your pay. After 20 years at a job, the average employee receives 23 vacation days. 43% of employees report working at least some from home.

            My thesis is that for a lot of workers, the work/leisure divide is more porous than 50 years ago, so the difference between work and retirement is not as stark.Report

        • Avatar LeeEsq in reply to PD Shaw
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          says:

          I also expect that retirement lost a lot of its allure by the time the earliest boomers reached retirement age. The Silent and Greatest Generation were really the first groups that could really benefit from social security, Medicare, pensions, etc. in full. Health care was good enough that many of them were healthy enough to enjoy retirement while previous generations lacked the ability to do so unless they were very wealthy.Report

      • Avatar Kolohe in reply to Saul Degraw
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        says:

        One shouldn’t forget also that there are a lot of Boomers, and quantity is a quality all its own.

        i.e. I’m not sure how much of things are ‘different’ and how much is that there are just so many more 65 year olds than there’s ever been in US history. And how much their passage though time, in previous unseen quantities, through the economy and social systems, in turn makes current 65 year olds ‘different.’

        (another interesting thing is going to happen as the ‘year entered workforce’ for those retiring gets further to the right on this graph.Report

  2. Avatar Oscar Gordon
    Ignored
    says:

    L6: So wrong. The government should not be permitted to take action against persons on ‘secret’ lists. If homeland wants to keep a list of people to watch, fine. But the moment they take some action against a person on that list, be it getting a warrant or preventing them from doing something (like flying), they need to be willing to lay it all out on the table to a judge, and be prepared for their rationales to come out in discovery.Report

  3. Avatar Oscar Gordon
    Ignored
    says:

    L4: In a rare moment, I think the courts got this one wrong. The coach (IIRC) was not asking, explicitly or implicitly, for anyone under his authority to pray with him, so it seems like it falls pretty squarely in protected territory.Report

    • If I understand the facts correctly, he was not merely praying, he was using the school facility for a conspicuous display of piety. (Not legally relevant, but as an aside it is worth noting that Jesus explicitly instructed his followers not to do that. Matthew 6:5. This is one of many parts of the Bible that Evangelicals pretend doesn’t exist.) Banning discreet prayer (i.e. the sort that Jesus explicitly commends to his followers; Matthew 6:6) would be more problematic legally, and impossible as a matter of practicality. (Come to think of it, pretty much all of Matthew 6 is in the invisible-to-Evangelicals part of the Bible. See also: Matthew 5.)Report

      • Avatar Jaybird in reply to Richard Hershberger
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        says:

        We need to make the Bible legally relevant again.Report

      • Avatar PD Shaw in reply to Richard Hershberger
        Ignored
        says:

        I think a large part of the issue was the trial judge failed to provide written findings of fact, he made a non-detailed verbal ruling from the bench. The Court of Appeals made its own findings based upon information in the record, including details about the coach’s private religious speech.

        According to the idiom, the Devil is in the details, I expect the coach’s attorneys to refile a motion with the trial court, addressing the factual distinctions identified by the four justices (which seems more focused on the specific nature of the coach’s duties at the time he prayed).Report

      • Intended to be linked to PD Shaw’s, whose comment appears in State of the Discussion but not on this page. Even moreso, the subject of this appeal is that the district court judge denied a request for a preliminary injunction that would have given the coach everything he was asking for: reinstatement, back pay, and explicit permission to pray on the 50 yard line. The district judge said the coach was sufficiently unlikely to prevail to grant him the whole ball of wax in the form an injunction. Now that the SCOTUS has denied cert on the injunction, this presumably goes all the way back to the District Court and there will be a trial.Report

      • Avatar DensityDuck in reply to Richard Hershberger
        Ignored
        says:

        “Matthew 6:5. This is one of many parts of the Bible that Evangelicals pretend doesn’t exist.”

        It’s always funny when people treat religion like it’s a splatbook and you’ll get an XP penalty if you don’t play your character right.

        Matthew 6:5 doesn’t say anything about witnessing to others. I kind of doubt that Jesus would have preached against that. In context, it’s more about virtue-signaling.

        Now, if you want to say “well he wasn’t trying to convince anyone of anything, he was just signaling his virtue”, sure, I’ll always listen to arguments that performative displays of moral correctness are a bad idea and should be discouraged, and I’ll be amused to hear your reasoning as to why this isn’t generally applicable.Report

  4. Avatar George Turner
    Ignored
    says:

    L10: My housemate, a retired prosecutor, public defender, etc., really likes superhero movies. So sometimes I point out the wildly illegal nature of their activities, or tally up collateral damages (I’m looking out you, Iron Man, aka “Deep Pockets”). He admonishes me that I should not cross the streams. “There is reality, and then there are movies.”

    So it’s good to see that other attorneys are well aware of the flagrant violations of the law being committed by people like Bruce Wayne. Putting on a cape may grant special powers, but it certainly doesn’t grant special privileges. Superman only gets by with flattening half of Metropolis because Krypton was destroyed, otherwise the Metropolitans and their injury attorneys would own Krypton by now. At least Wonder Woman and Aquaman, so far, seem to obey the law for the most part, although their close association with Wayne and Kent could land them in serious legal trouble down the road.

    About the only super hero with any legal cover is Black Panther, who has sovereign immunity as head of a nation recognized by the UN, and one not under any UN sanctions.Report

    • Avatar Dark Matter in reply to George Turner
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      says:

      Increase the legal realism to “Wearing the Cape” level where all superheros are subject to sanction by the gov. I think Superman is still legally fine and the city still ends up half leveled due to the whole “invading genocidal army” thing.

      Batman is obviously a problem for multiple reasons… but increased legal realism means anti-heroes are hunted by heroes. We tend to handwave just how nasty anti-heroes would actually be. The Punisher going out and killing a hundred people would tend to attract attention and probably cause lots of problems.Report

      • Avatar Jaybird in reply to Dark Matter
        Ignored
        says:

        Batman: White Knight explores this, fwiw. (Worth reading!)

        The way the Punisher tends to be dealt with in the comics is that there is usually a debate among the people sent to capture him as to whether he should be arrested or given additional bullets.Report

        • Avatar Dark Matter in reply to Jaybird
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          says:

          In comics Punisher is protected from killing uninvolved civilians by plot armor. Absent that, he doesn’t have the resources to do a great job in separating the guilty and innocent. Worse, increase realism and he’s in a universe with super powers common enough that Organized Crime can hire super powered mercs.

          But if we’re opening the door to anti-heroes, the Punisher isn’t even close to the bottom as far as how nasty this can be. People with powers can have families. Successfully target them and we can create a mix of Superman and the Punisher, targeting normal criminals. As you pointed out, the powers that be probably has better things to do with their time than to bodyguard criminals.

          Even in a realistic universe where maintaining a full secret id is impossible, I can see Organized Crime deciding they really don’t want to go down that path and policing their own internally.Report

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