Laura Ingraham Can Keep her “We” To Herself


Andrew Donaldson

Born and raised in West Virginia, Andrew has since lived and traveled around the world several times over. Though frequently writing about politics out of a sense of duty and love of country, most of the time he would prefer discussions on history, culture, occasionally nerding on aviation, and his amateur foodie tendencies. He can usually be found misspelling/misusing words on Twitter @four4thefire and his writing website

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39 Responses

  1. Avatar Doctor Jay says:

    Change is always stressful. But some respond to it as sort of a throw-down – “Ok, bring it!”, while others try to avoid it.

    One good way to avoid change has been to live in certain places that are slow to see change. But change has come to them. The food at the grocery store has shifted. The kitchen staff looks different. And the jobs kind of suck compared to a generation ago, but you see these new, different looking people doing them cheerfully.

    All that resentment isn’t all that well directed, or likely to make things better. We built a mighty nation with the wretched refuse of a teeming shore. Those words described my great grandfather.

    I do wonder if the internet hasn’t accelerated their discomfort, as it brings the world into your home, in a way that it is much less filtered than television was.Report

  2. Avatar Lyle says:

    Thanks for pointing out that this is not new, Consider that the 1920s KKK was against catholics, and it took until 1960 to elect a catholic president, but now the supreme court is majority catholic.This process involves assimilation and taking the best of a new groups traditions and making them general. One example of this is that tortillas are now more popular than white bread. Of course there were some rather forceful assimilation such as the Germans in WWI It takes a couple of generations but lots of folks assimilate to make more money.Report

  3. Avatar lyle says:

    As a further example one great grand father came over in 1861 (up the Mississippi which was a spectacular problem) The children spoke German in the home, and grandkids born in 1911 and 1913 were called the little german boys at the local crossroads school. Needless to say this changed drastically with Aunts born in 1915 and 1920 and my dad born in 1924. Non spoke much German. In fact WWI lead to german no longer being spoken in that home.Report

  4. Avatar CJColucci says:

    Good hell…we do not vote on demographics in America.

    A point I haven’t seen made enough.Report

  5. Avatar J_A says:

    In some parts of the country, it does seem like the America we know and love doesn’t exist anymore. Massive demographic changes have been foisted upon the American people. And they’re changes that none of us ever voted for and most of us don’t like. From Virginia to California, we see stark examples of how radically in some ways the country has changed

    You know who else said that: Sitting Bull.Report

    • Avatar Jaybird says:

      I never know what my takeaway from comments like this should be.

      “Man, Sitting Bull was a real bigot!” seems to be on the table. So does “Man, Sitting Bull was right!”

      If it’s not one of those two, what’s my takeaway?Report

      • Avatar dragonfrog says:

        I’d go with something along the lines of:

        Sitting Bull got angry after the government tried to force his people onto overcrowded reserves, declared open war on those who failed to move, and sent soldiers to murder them. Laura Ingraham gets angry because people speak their own languages, wear clothes unlike the ones in which she dresses herself, and eat foods she is not familiar with. This says a lot about the two people.Report

      • Avatar J_A says:


        There’s a third possibility.

        America is a country of immigrants. Every one of us, including Sitting Bull, is either an immigrant, or the descendant of immigrants. In the case of Laura Imgraham, very likely, fairly recent immigrants.

        We don’t have the right, at least not those of us that arrived here after 1492, to claim that WE are the true Americans, and that those, like the Ingrahams, that just walked off the boat, should just go back to where they came from.Report

  6. Saul I know you had a long comment here but now I can’t see it for some reason…Report

  7. Avatar Em Carpenter says:

    Your points are well taken in poking holes at even the slightest bit of substance in her words.
    I think she is horrid.
    Nobody will ever convince me that her Nazi salute at the RNC was “just an awkward wave”. It was a very purposeful upward-thrusted straight arm, palm down, and then a pause before she recommenced cheerily waving.Report

  8. Avatar Saul Degraw says:

    Try again:

    I’m going to be blunt and partisan. The problem of the conservative opposition to the Laura Ingraham/Fox News/Race Baiting types is that they are highly ineffective and this is more or less to the point of uselessness. I don’t know why this is. Maybe it is just factions snipping at each other, maybe it is because they are small in numbers, or just the true believers in a party where there are none.

    Kevin Drum had posts from yesterday and today called GOPus Delendus Est. His basic view is cynical and it is also mine. The GOP has become a party that largely stands for two things: Tax cuts for the incredibly wealthy and regulatory rollbacks for industry. The number of people who sincerely believe in these things as good are very small. So the GOP and a faction of right-leaning libertarians (the Rothbard crew) made an alliance with racists/xenophobes and nativists. This isn’t new. It started a long time ago and Lee Atwater famously explained the reasons for it. Jesse Helms was a GOP senator for a long time and famous for his attacks against minorities to stay in power.

    Trump is not an abnormal exception here but the conclusion of dog-whistles and whispers and decades of innuendo. Anyone who tries to claim otherwise is wrong in my view.

    In an ideal world, we wouldn’t vote demographics wouldn’t signify voting ways but the United States is not the ideal world in this case. I’ve said this before but despite reputation, San Francisco is not as super-progressive as the rest of the country makes us out to be. I see no reason why a socially-liberal but fiscally-moderate/conservative party couldn’t work here. But the problem is that this just exists within the Democratic Party along with economic lefties who are also socially on the left. The GOP has decided it doesn’t want to reform or moderate to be competitive in California.

    I see lots of people complaint that they are proud Republicans or conservatives and that Trump doesn’t speak for them. I see them complain when liberals tar the GOP as being the party of Trump/conservatism. The problem here is that Trump is really, really popular in the GOP but these conservatives just don’t want to admit that and find a new home. Or they don’t want to come up with any plan of action to defeat Trump and save their own party. Jason K frequently laments libertarians who “hate the left more than they love liberty.” I think the same dynamic is destroying neverTrump conservatives. They hate Democrats/Liberals more than anything else and this prevents an alliance. There was a defense reporter for the Washington Free Beacon who tweeted something like “I do like Trump. I did not vote for Trump but damn is the media making it hard for me not to support him.”

    Why is this? It is because being a member of the GOP is strongly in her identity and she doesn’t want to give this up. So she will become pro-Trump instead. To be pro-Trump is to be for his racist rants and owning the libs. That is all you get with Trump. But she hates my tribe and will do it.Report

    • Avatar Doctor Jay says:

      As it happens, I know a number of people who are long-time Republicans, and I don’t think are generally hateful, racist people.

      That said, I have no intention of letting them off the hook for Trump. They want to point to Hillary Clinton and how “terrible” she is. I have decided to just not have that debate. Instead I will point to the other 13 candidates in the Republican primary, not all of whom I liked much, but all of whom I thought were qualified to hold the office, but Trump was not. How is it that he won?Report

    • Avatar Chip Daniels says:

      Civility is premised on the idea that everyone is acting in good faith, that we all share a common desire for a world where everyone is respected and cherished and lives flourishing lives.

      The Trump followers have lost the presumption of good faith. By silently assenting to everything he has done, by judging it to be the lesser of the evil, they are expressing solidarity with a worldview that holds their fellow countrymen as lesser people.Report

      • Avatar Brandon Berg says:

        I don’t think you understand what “lesser evil” means. To call something the lesser evil isn’t an expression of approval. It’s just a judgment that one alternative is less awful than the other. Personally, I think Clinton was the lesser evil in 2016, but it was a close call and reasonable people could have decided otherwise.Report

        • Avatar J_A says:


          I don’t think you understand what “lesser evil” means. To call something the lesser evil isn’t an expression of approval. It’s just a judgment that one alternative is less awful than the other.

          Fine. I’m willing to concede that. But Hillary was in the ballot 21 months ago. She’s now part of the history books.

          So, alter defeating the larger evil, why are those that claim they chose the lesser evil not doing anything to rein in this evil? Is it that you are only allowed to fight evil once, and, having chosen the lesser evil 21 months ago, you are mandated to go along with its evil program full steam ahead?

          Or is it that, no matter the issue, no matter the person, the Democratic Party is always the larger evil?Report

          • Avatar Burt Likko says:

            Or is it that, no matter the issue, no matter the person, the Democratic Party is always the larger evil?

            We are seeing a demonstration played out in real time that this proposition is true for a significant percentage of the United States’ population.Report

            • Avatar LeeEsq says:

              There are simply millions of Americans that can not abide by the Democratic Party even if they agree more with the Democratic Party than the Republicans. There are self-styled Leftists that just can’t bring themselves to vote Democratic and would rather toss the race to the Republicans by voting Green in tightly contested districts. Its a pathological and illogical hatred.Report

    • Avatar Marchmaine says:

      The problem here is that Trump is really, really popular in the GOP but these conservatives just don’t want to admit that and find a new home.

      I think you are 100% correct here… and the practical problem is that the American political market is systematically opposed to creating new homes… which is why you often hear me advocating for more political housing.

      But, bear in mind that more housing will upset the Democratic coalition too… so join me against your self interest in creating new political housing that will reduce the value of your current home.Report

      • Avatar pillsy says:

        Any OT comment thread will end up with someone complaining about NIMBYs if it goes on long enough.Report

        • Avatar Burt Likko says:

          Or a dissection of a) libertarianism, b) the Left, c) political hypocrisy, or d) the degree to which a given body or opinions help or hurt the site; with terms within those subjects themselves subject to mutably-defined definitions and an efflorescence of side-arguments about who breached the presumption of good faith argument first.Report

        • Avatar Marchmaine says:

          There should be some sort of OT specific law or somethin’

          Me? I’m just trying to help y’all relate.Report

  9. Avatar Brandon Berg says:

    Broke: Immigrants are ruining my country!

    Woke: Immigrants are ruining my city!Report

    • Avatar Damon says:

      It’s always about someone’s back yard…only the size varies.

      I enoyed reading the demands from the Seattle Black Book Club, especially the parts stating that the whole of the city was stolen from the native americans. There seemed no recognition of the iron that their ancestors also took part. And in addition to the demands the the shop owner turn over 54% of his profits, and other demands, we get this:

      “We are willing to take all necessary measures to satisfy the demands we’ve listed here.


      Seattle Black Book Club”

      Sounds like a threat to me.Report