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Jaybird

Jaybird is Birdmojo on Xbox Live and Jaybirdmojo on Playstation's network. He's been playing consoles since the Atari 2600 and it was Zork that taught him how to touch-type. If you've got a song for Wednesday, a commercial for Saturday, a recommendation for Tuesday, an essay for Monday, or, heck, just a handful a questions, fire off an email to AskJaybird-at-gmail.com

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11 Responses

  1. Avatar Slade the Leveller says:

    Full disclosure: not a gamer. Further full disclosure: native English speaker. If you’re at level 9, and you play a card that says move to the next level, which is the winning level, then you’ve won. I don’t understand the dispute.Report

    • Avatar Pinky in reply to Slade the Leveller says:

      It’s bad etiquette to win a game of Munchkin without bending the rules. It’s like bringing a knife to a knife fight.Report

    • Avatar Fish in reply to Slade the Leveller says:

      I agree. Game over. “Play during any combat,” it says. And it must be understood that Steve Jackson programmed disputes into the game in order to encourage arguments like this…well, maybe not arguments like THIS, exactly…but the point is he sabotaged his own game in order to make arguing over the rules and what the cards mean (especially when they contradict each other) part of the game.

      But the guy who played the “Conan Helps Out” card? He was right.Report

    • Avatar DavidTC in reply to Slade the Leveller says:

      If you’re at level 9, and you play a card that says move to the next level, which is the winning level, then you’ve won.

      No, you haven’t, because there is a specific rule, overriding the card, that, *unless the card that gives you a level says so*, you cannot gain the winning level in any manner besides killing a monster.

      The confusion is that there is a difference between ‘defeating’ a monster and ‘killing’ a monster. There are a bunch of weird situational ways you can ‘defeat’ a monster and get its treasure, (Like you can charm it to be friendly, or you can turn it into something else that ignores you, or lots of things) but you don’t generally get any levels from that…and if you have some card in play that would seem to give you a level *anyway* (Like one that gives you a level every time you face a monster and don’t run away.), you *cannot* use that to get the winning level if you didn’t kill the monster.

      You can only get the winning level if you *kill* the monster in battle, which requires you using your combat and buffs…*or any card or special ability that states the monster was killed*. (Of course, technically, this card says the monster is ‘discarded’, not killed…but the game uses those sort of weird terms all the time, causing infinite confusion, mostly on purpose. The monster is clearly killed here, the card makes it clear.)

      So I think what Jaybird is trying to hinge the argument on is that Conan killed him, not the player. But that’s not how combat works. There’s all sorts of cards that imply some independent entity was involve in the killing, you can have hirelings and all sorts of things, you can summon things, you can even get other players to help, etc…and killing something always, for the purpose of the rules, counts as you doing it. (And the other players, if they get involved.) Having Conan help is no different from summoning a demon to help or something.

      Of course, this card, being an extremely overpowered insta-kill, and almost completely unrestricted, only lets you take *one* level and no treasures, instead of what the monster is *supposed* to give…but it is still you doing it.

      Also, the FAQ specifically states that any ‘automatic defeat’ of a monster from a card counts as killing them for the purpose of getting the winning level, unless *that* is explicitly stated otherwise.

      Or possibly he’s just objecting to the fact the card was used as an instant win, under the belief there’s not supposed to be such a thing in Munchkin. Which is…uh…weirdly wrong. Like super-wrong. Like a quarter of the games I’ve ever played have players cleverly doing something that forcibly ends combat with their victory, because that’s the combat you *save* your insta-combat-victory cards for. (Because everyone is trying a last ditch attempt to sabotage you.)

      So that’s not any sort of principle of the game. Hell, there’s a card that called Divine Intervention that gives all Clerics a level, and *explicitly* says that level can be the winning level, and has to be played *immediately* upon drawing it…which means someone can insta-win, with no one having the ability to counter at all, because *someone else* merely *drew a card from the deck*.Report

  2. Avatar Kimmi says:

    Yawn. I Am at work. it’s 1am.Report

  3. Avatar Nevermoor says:

    I’m playing this.

    Or, more specifically, Beholder. Which is a hell of a drug (I’ve played, and been thoroughly unimpressed by, a few minutes of Windward and Route Zero). It’s relatively fast paced, single screen, difficult, and has a story I like (small cog in an evil government machine).Report

  4. Avatar DavidTC says:

    you can’t just play a card and win the game without giving your co-players an opportunity to prevent you from winning!

    As someone who plays Munchin, I do not understand where you get this as a premise of the game.

    There are quite a few cards that can be used to win a game when played. Most of them are not *obvious*, but the situations exist all the time.

    In fact, I once *lost* a game because I had a card that would have caused me to (forcibly) steal their 10th level combat turn, with me get the 10th level instead, and thus win,which I intended to do *after* they they had fought off everyone else and were the point of victory…and someone *else* jumped into the combat, which caused them to (due to some other card) instantly gain a level, which was explicitly stated that it could be the winning level, and win regardless of the outcome of the combat. The card was played, they got the level, and the game was over at that moment, mid-combat. Boom.

    In fact, there are actually quite a few ‘go up a level’ situations like that where they explicitly say you *don’t* have to follow the normal rule of only getting a tenth level by defeating a monster, which means you actually *can* just win with playing those cards. (Which usually only can work in certain obscure situations.)

    In *this* situation, the interpretation depends on whether or not the monster is killed, or just ‘defeated’. As the card explicitly says that that no treasure is received, and you can only go up one level regardless, and those statements only makes sense as clarification if you *did* kill the monster. It wouldn’t need to explain you didn’t get any treasure, or that you *only* get one level, if you *didn’t* kill anything!

    Here’s the FAQ: Note also that ANY level gained as a result of killing a monster counts as the winning level. (If a card says a monster is automatically defeated, this counts as a kill unless the card says otherwise.)Report

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