Mexican congressman climbs U.S. border fence to illustrate that Trump’s wall is ‘totally absurd’

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Will Truman

Will Truman is the Editor-in-Chief of Ordinary Times. He is also on Twitter.

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45 Responses

  1. Avatar Stillwater says:

    So they’re not only sending us their rapists and murderers, but also folks who can lift themselves up by their own bootstraps.Report

  2. Avatar notme says:

    Seems to me this shows exactly why we need a better wall. That and all the holes they cut.

    http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/illegals-cut-9287-holes-obama-era-border-fenceReport

  3. Avatar j r says:

    Yes. The elephant needs to be much bigger. And white.

    How else can Americans show that we are most favored in the eyes of the gods?Report

    • Avatar notme in reply to j r says:

      Who thinks the fence is a white elephant in the first place? Maybe it’s the liberals that want open boarders?Report

      • Avatar j r in reply to notme says:

        Who thinks the fence is a white elephant in the first place?

        People who can do math and aren’t racialists.Report

        • Avatar notme in reply to j r says:

          People who can do math and aren’t racialists.

          Does that include the Dems that supported a wall in 2006? Back in 2006 they said “build it!”

          https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2017/01/26/when-wall-was-fence-and-democrats-embraced/QE7ieCBXjXVxO63pLMTe9O/story.html

          What changed? The need for the wall? Or the fact that Trump wants it so they automatically oppose it? BTW, what is a “racialist?”Report

          • Avatar trizzlor in reply to notme says:

            Well, here’s what Obama said about that law in 2006:

            This bill, from my perspective, is an election-year, political solution to a real policy challenge that goes far beyond November. It is great for sound bites and ad campaigns, but as an answer to the problem of illegal immigration, it is unfinished at best.

            Yes, we need tougher border security and stronger enforcement measures. Yes, we need more resources for Customs and Border agents and more detention beds. Democrats and Republicans in both the House and the Senate agree on these points. But immigrants sneaking in through unguarded holes in our border are only part of the problem.

            As a host of former Bush immigration officials and Members of Congress said in today’s Washington Post, we must “acknowledge that as much as half of the illegal-immigration problem is driven by the hiring of people who enter the United States through official border points but use fraudulent documents or overstay visas.”

            You will note that ICE and CPB got additional resources, 90% of the fence is built, and the flow of illegal Mexican immigrants into the US has been net-negative through the Obama administration. So the better question is why Republicans want the elephant to be bigger and whiter.Report

            • Avatar DensityDuck in reply to trizzlor says:

              “This bill, from my perspective, is an election-year, political solution to a real policy challenge that goes far beyond November. It is great for sound bites and ad campaigns, but as an answer to the problem of illegal immigration, it is unfinished at best.”

              Whatever, bro. Still voted “yes”.

              ” we must “acknowledge that as much as half of the illegal-immigration problem is driven by the hiring of people who enter the United States through official border points but use fraudulent documents or overstay visas.” ”

              Whatever, bro. Still voted “yes”.

              Like, I keep hearing about how it doesn’t matter that people have economic concerns, it doesn’t matter that people are worried about anomie leading to drug addiction that destroys the minds of their communities, it doesn’t matter that people can point to specific examples of violence inspired by Muslim extremism (when not committed by actual Muslim extremists). I keep hearing that none of this matters because RACISM.Report

              • Avatar trizzlor in reply to DensityDuck says:

                I can see the insinuation of racism has short-circuited your brain so I’ll try to simplify this:

                1. In 2006 illegal immigration flow was 200-300k and Democrats supported the fence together with business regulation as a compromise measure.
                2. In 2016 the fence is built, ICE is well funded, and illegal immigration flow has been net negative for years. Democrats do not support massive investment in an additional wall.

                Now, either Donald Trump wants the wall to keep illegal immigrants *in* the country, he is unable to do simple math, or he wants the wall as an ethno-nationalist symbol. Given his insinuations about Latinos (both born here and abroad) as well as the explicit statements by the White House chief strategist denouncing non-white immigration, I’m betting it’s the latter but you are free to decide for yourself.Report

              • Avatar Kim in reply to trizzlor says:

                trizz,
                Well, it’s extremely apparent that you don’t know anything about Mexico.
                When you can give me the approval rating of Mexico’s President, then maybe we should talk.

                When you can explain the riots and how close to 25% of mexico’s population arriving on our doorstep we are….

                Because, I’m sorry, you aren’t looking an inch into the future.

                Donald Trump, for all he’s a narcissistic bastard, still is getting intelligence reports.

                EVEN IF he doesn’t get the wall built, it’s a prudent political move to be pro-wall, if there’s a sudden influx of panicking people from a narcostate south of the border.Report

              • Avatar DensityDuck in reply to trizzlor says:

                “I can see the insinuation of racism has short-circuited your brain so I’ll try to simplify this”

                You can Obamasplain all you like but he still voted “yes”. And if a “yes” vote is all that matters elsewhere then it’s all that matters here.

                Alternatively, we could both agree that politics is the art of the possible and that the arc of history is plotted with error bars around it and what counts is the motives rather than the actions-in-the-moment…but you’d be agreeing to a whole lot more than Senator Barack Obama voting in favor of border controls back in 2006.Report

              • Avatar Mike Schilling in reply to DensityDuck says:

                And Obama didn’t even have the balls to make Mexico pay for it.Report

        • Avatar Kim in reply to j r says:

          jr,
          Know what the approval rating is for Mexico’s President?
          Know why they were having riots recently?
          Know what percentage of Mexico winds up on our doorstep as narcostate refugees?

          … yeah, do the math.Report

  4. Avatar Damon says:

    Fred sums it up well.

    http://fredoneverything.org/what-to-do-with-latinos-get-used-to-them/

    That being said, preventing more coming is another issue completely. And hey, that wall seems to be working decently for the Jews in Israel.Report

    • Avatar j r in reply to Damon says:

      The Hispanic genii is out of the bottle.

      Yeah, I think that happened sometime around 1492.Report

    • Avatar DensityDuck in reply to Damon says:

      Fred’s column is entirely typical of why this conversation keeps going.

      “I have economic concerns–”
      “Whatever, fuckin’ racist.”
      “No, the effects of wage depression are well-documented and–”
      “Whatever, fuckin’ racist.”
      “Look, our immigration process is actually far more welcoming than the reverse–”
      Whatever, fuckin’ racist.
      “Okay, well, I guess you’re not interested in talking about this?”
      “Well, yeah, why would I talk to a fuckin’ RACIST?Report

      • Avatar j r in reply to DensityDuck says:

        Except, this is complete BS:

        “No, the effects of wage depression are well-documented and–”

        Besides the fact that “well-documented” is the textbook example of weasel words, it isn’t well-documented at all. Go read the literature for yourself. And what you’ll find is some evidence to support the claim that immigration has had a negative impact on the wages of the lowest-skilled workers (ie high school dropouts), but more evidence that overall, immigrants have a positive impact on the economy and on wages overall.

        So, yes. Most of what you’re calling “economic concerns” is just cover for racialist arguments about how brown people can’t assimilate. Again, go see for yourself, if you don’t already know this. Go to the places where the anti-immigration crowd assembles and read what they’re saying. Read the arguments. Read the comments. Follow the #whitegenocide hashtags. Or don’t. You can also just keep pretending that this stuff doesn’t exist. That is an option as well.Report

        • Avatar DensityDuck in reply to j r says:

          Well, bro, first off, you’re doing that thing where I accuse you of doing something and you reply “nuh UH, nobody EVER does that” and then you do the exact thing I accused you of doing.

          Second, “what you’ll find is some evidence to support the claim that immigration has had a negative impact on the wages of the lowest-skilled workers (ie high school dropouts)”

          right because fuck those lowest-skilled high school dropouts, right? Why do THEY think they deserve any help from society? And they’re probably racists anyway.

          “arguments about how brown people can’t assimilate. ”

          Never said they couldn’t. And if they want to, that’s great. I’ve already said elsewhere that I think the solution to immigration problems is to just hand out green cards to anyone who asks.Report

          • Avatar j r in reply to DensityDuck says:

            Well, bro, first off, you’re doing that thing where I accuse you of doing something and you reply “nuh UH, nobody EVER does that” and then you do the exact thing I accused you of doing.

            No. It’s not that at all.

            right because fuck those lowest-skilled high school dropouts, right? Why do THEY think they deserve any help from society? And they’re probably racists anyway.

            Quite honestly, I don’t believe you.

            Nice try, though… bro.Report

            • Avatar DensityDuck in reply to j r says:

              “Quite honestly, I don’t believe you.”

              aka “whatever, you fuckin’ racist.”Report

              • Avatar Troublesome Frog in reply to DensityDuck says:

                Jumping to the conclusion that somebody has jumped to the conclusion that you’re a racist is the new jumping to the conclusion that somebody is racist.Report

              • Avatar DensityDuck in reply to Troublesome Frog says:

                Gosh, why would I ever think you were accusing me of racism? I mean, all you did was write that “[m]ost of what you’re calling “economic concerns” is just cover for racialist arguments about how brown people can’t assimilate…[f]ollow the #whitegenocide hashtags. Or don’t. You can also just keep pretending that this stuff doesn’t exist.”Report

    • Avatar Kim in reply to Damon says:

      Damon,
      Israel is dead. What the hell good will a wall do when the Global warming hits? Absolutely fucking nothing.Report

      • Avatar Kolohe in reply to Kim says:

        Somebody hasn’t seen the first few episodes of the Expanse.Report

        • Avatar Will Truman in reply to Kolohe says:

          That show is in my radar. Is it any good?Report

          • Avatar Kolohe in reply to Will Truman says:

            I like it a lot. I’m on episode 6 or 7 and avoiding most conversations on the internet about it so I won’t get spoiled.Report

          • Avatar aaron david in reply to Will Truman says:

            I have read the first few books it is based on, not too shabby. Where can one go to watch them @kolohe ?Report

          • Avatar j r in reply to Will Truman says:

            I just watched the first season of Expanse on Netflix. I like it. There is a lot going on and sometimes it’s easy to get really confused about just what is going on and why. But they do manage to bring all the threads back together in a way that makes sense.

            I’m generally not good with sci-fi and fantasy, usually because I can’t help myself from picking apart all the reasons why this or that world makes no sense as a stable social/economic/political equilibrium. The biggest compliment that I can pay Expanse is that I didn’t have that problem.

            The one exception was: I could not figure out what the deal was with Holden’s nine parents having him to make some kind of claim on the land where they lives and why that was a lost cause. Maybe the books and/or season 2 go into that more.Report

            • Avatar Mike Schilling in reply to j r says:

              I have that problem less with SF and Fantasy than with a lot of mainstream stuff. Like, in The Americans, if thy work at the travel agency all day and do their spy stuff all night, when do they sleep? And didn’t one of their kids ever want some comfort after a bad dream and discover that their parent are gone?Report

              • Avatar j r in reply to Mike Schilling says:

                I have that same problem; although, I think about it less as a problem with stable equilibria and more a problem with plot. One of my biggest pet peeves is when things happen and characters do things for no other reason than that is what the plot needs them to do.

                So, if the plot needs the kids to have a problem with their parents being gone at all hours, then it’s a problem. But not until then. Not necessarily saying that’s how I feel about The Americans, just giving an example.Report

            • Avatar Kim in reply to j r says:

              jr,
              you should check out Shadow World then — that’s a world that was designed by an economist (among other hats he’s worn…).Report

  5. Avatar Maria says:

    I listened to this on NPR (https://www.revealnews.org/episodes/up-against-the-wall/) the other day and I found it very interesting. It actually made me a little more sympathetic to the perspective of border agents (a little) and it reinforced for me that “the border” is not simply some line in the sand. People live there, they work the land, and their opinions about how to best manage the border are as varied as those of us who are hundreds of miles removed from their reality. My takeaway? The wall is only as good as the enforcement. So increased patrols does far more than a 30 foot wall. And improvements to some of the existing physical barriers are in order (just as with any aging infrastructure). But this is only a very small part of the issues around people arriving and/or staying here illegally and does not address the perplexing tunnel vision that some have regarding this issue. It certainly does not help to demonize those who are here illegally, but who are and have been productive members of our communities for years. Nor does it help to pretend that there isn’t an element of racism underlying the public discourse of this subject.

    As with all things politically charged, people talk in black and white about issues that are a veritable rainbow of nuance.Report

    • Avatar dragonfrog in reply to Maria says:

      That makes sense. A wall is for delaying border crossings, not stopping them.

      Safes are sold with one or two ratings – numbers, in minutes, representing how long it would take a skilled safe cracker, with full schematics of the safe, to open it (the second number, where present, is for the same person also having an oxy-acetylene torch).

      So you buy the most otherwise desirable (cheap, the right size, etc.) safe with a rating above the frequency of your security patrol or burglar alarm response time. At a certain point that safe is too expensive, so you increase security patrols until you can buy cheaper safes.Report

    • Avatar DensityDuck in reply to Maria says:

      If someone comes here and wants to stay, that’s great! I welcome them.

      I think that once they get a green card they’ll learn that jobs are surprisingly hard to come by when you ask for American wages and workplaces that conform to OSHA regulations, but that’s a different problem.Report

  6. Avatar Will H. says:

    I knew a guy that fell 30 feet and broke his ankle.
    I knew another guy who fell 30 feet and died from it.

    Jumping from the top of a 3-storey building is nothing to scoff at.
    A test of dedication.Report

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