Ramesh Ponnuru: America, Stay Out of Britain’s EU Debate – Bloomberg
While we have an interest in making sure Britain continues to have global influence, the British themselves obviously have a larger interest in it. There is no reason to believe we can judge how to maintain that influence better than they can. They may even resent it if we lecture them on this issue.
The second point is that we aren’t likely to sway the British by making a case based on our interests, either. The referendum involves some of the most profound interests a nation can have. Many Britons see the European Union as a threat to their economy, their sovereignty, even their way of life. We cannot convince them they are wrong about these issues, and it is not our place to try. And it is not reasonable to ask people who have these concerns that they should look past them because we find their membership in the EU useful to our own foreign policy.
Threats about trade relations are worse than pointless. Refusing to negotiate a trade deal with a post-Brexit Britain would be a punitive gesture made at our own considerable expense. For that reason, the threat is not credible: Of course we would make a deal.
From: America, Stay Out of Britain’s EU Debate – Bloomberg View
Personally, I hope they exit with or without the Br-; it still strikes me as counter-productive to make a non-credible threat that exiting will hurt trade relations with the US. We already know that Cameron is shitting his pants that the referendum he forced himself to call will vote to exit… so, the threats to him are wasted. Whereas outside powers threatening economic doom on the UK for exercising sovereign interests is a big part of the motivation for exit in the first place. It is a sterling example of when benign neutrality is a better policy.
And, since we so rarely talk foreign policy here… i’ll stick this graphic here where The American Conservative rates Bernie as having the best *realist* foreign policy.
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/hawishness-scorecard-revised-554×380.jpgReport
Time’s up! I win the foreign policy debate at OT. All bow before me, the lone commenter.Report
Does that make you OT’s Foreign Minister by default?
I hope not – if I am also to infer from your comment that you support AmConMag neo-isolationism. If both are true, then I will rally my mass of supporter to unseat you at the next irregularly unscheduled meeting of the anti-party.
(Note: exploiting my editor privileges to re-write my originally sloppy reply – understanding I’ll have to get my game up when time comes for you, Chip, and me to duke it out over who gets to be OTFM)Report
I’m rather sure it does, and thinking of changing my Gravatar title to reflect that – with all the rights and privileges thereto.
Regarding my foreign policy views, it depends, do you consider the Morlocks to be isolationists?Report
Probably “realists,” and more so than the AmConMagnons, though I’d like to know more about the Morlock approach to offshore balancing.Report
Well, my morlockian foreign policy turns Byzantine when it comes to offshore balancing. It indisputably works, until it doesn’t – but only at the regional level, and only in a multi-polar world, and only with realistic restraint on when the off-shore power takes its thumb off the scale and puts boots on the ground.
It never works the way the other other McCain thinks it works.
And airpower/drones cause me to question whether there is such a thing as offshore anything anymore.Report
The OT commentariat has expressed as much interest in this thread as America has in the UK/ EU dispute.
But yeah, its a good thing Ramesh is around to warn us to stay out of something we are scarcely aware of.Report
His comment was directed primarily at our government, which is aware of it I believe.Report
…something other than Trump is happening?Report
My guess is that the UK is just like us USers, paying more attention to Trumpmentum than they are to US interference in their business. It’s like a political train wreck. Can’t stop watching…Report
Maybe we can use this to our national advantage, and swipe some other country’s stuff while everybody is distracted.Report
You want to start another two hour riot?
Besides, that only works when the economy is bubbalicious.Report
They will greet us as liberators!
And I’m not saying we won’t get our hair mussed, maybe 3, 4 trillion dollars tops depending on the breaks.Report
That’s unfair, the Commentariate has foreign policy opinions on lots of stuff. We had knock em down/drag em out discussions on Iran, Israel, China, Trade, Greece and Russia.
Britain in the EU club; who the fish cares that much? If Britain exits then they’ll hack out some agreements with the EU and things will proceed much as they are going now but with a bit of a choker around some immigration/welfare/trade areas. If Britain stays then the EU’s already given them concessions on those same issues. It’s a really really small deal.Report
I’m honestly a bit bummed that there isn’t more interest. I linkaged something about it a little while back and no responses. It’s a really interesting topic.
The disgruntled part of me says that OT isn’t interested in any political subject that can’t revert to the comparative virtues of Team Red and Team Blue and this one can’t. (Not that Chip isn’t trying!)
But the other part of me recognizes that I’m not sure what I have to say on the matter, so I can’t quite call out others for not expressing their views. I thought joining the EU was a bad idea when they did it and I would have been on Team No. Now that they’re in, though, I am reluctant to endorse their departure. Part of it being Status Quo Bias, part of it being that it will exacerbate an already tense situation in Europe.
(This despite the fact that on the docket is an issue near and dear to my heart, the EU’s vaping regulations. On that issue alone, I should advocate that they pull out as Britain is probably the best country on vaping issues, while the EU is… not very good.)Report
What’s wrong with exacerbating a tense situation in Europe?
Consider the possibility that the Brussels apparat is of a piece with features of North American political practice wherein decisions are taken away from elected officials and handed over to cadres (and also taken away from local officials and handed over to the central government). A mortal blow may be a harbinger and motor of a reversal of this process in Europe, in North America, and in the Antipodes.Report
The interesting opinion that I saw recently said that if Brexit happens, Scotsxit happens.
It was phrased less clumsily, of course.Report
Meh, it’s just like Obama to impotent threats.Report