Morning Ed: Europe {2016.01.27.W}


Will Truman

Will Truman is the Editor-in-Chief of Ordinary Times. He is also on Twitter.

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7 Responses

  1. Avatar Damon says:

    Moving to Europe: Ah, yah, if you’ve ever been to these countries a lot of this is pretty apparent, even in England.

    Ireland and smoking: From a tourist perspective, the no smoking policy is very nice, especially since I’m allergic. Going into the old historic pubs was fun and there wasn’t any smoke to spoil my whiskey drinking, but I have no doubt that the smokers are staying home a lot more. Whether that is the main reason for the trend or there are other factors is hard to tell from the article.

    Greek smoking. God bless their defiant hearts!Report

    • Avatar dragonfrog says:

      In Canada, all indoor workplaces, including bars and restaurants, are non-smoking by law.

      When this was being introduced province-by-province, each province’s bar owners’ association screamed and squawked that this would put them all out of business, that smokers would find it more important to smoke than to socialize and drink, etc. This in spite of the fact that in all provinces after the first one to pass a smoking ban, they could look at other provinces that had passed such a ban and observe that there was no significant effect.

      There might have been a brief dip, when the people who didn’t want to go to bars without smoking went less, and the people who didn’t want to go to bars because of the smoke hadn’t yet started going more. But now it’s lovely – you can go to a bar without reeking of smoke! You can dance at a bar without getting short of breath!

      And this is in the Frozen North, where you actually have to put on a coat and hat to step outside for a smoke much of the year.Report

      • Avatar Will Truman says:

        What I remember back from the debate in Colosse was that the mayor and city council swore up and down that this would be good for the bars because they would bring out non-smokers. Bars replied that if that were the case then they would go smoke-free voluntarily. It passed. Then a year later, the city council and mayor were demanding that Colosse County go smoke-free, because too many people were going to bars outside city limits.

        While I am pretty sympathetic to a nigh-universal ban in restaurants, in good part because kids are taken to them, I think there ought to be room for smoking and smoke-free bars. A balance already seemed to be occurring in Colosse when the ban passed. I’m relatively sure if the ban were repealed that there would be a balance. If a license system were required to prevent them from all going back to smoking, then… I don’t know, maybe. But if a licensure system is required to prevent that, then that says a lot about the economic effects of smoking and bars.Report

        • Avatar dragonfrog says:

          Funny thing is, there are still hookah bars – because the ban isn’t on smoking, it’s on smoking tobacco. So now you can smoke sugarcane bagasse (the waste left over after the cane juice is extracted) that’s flavoured the same way as hookah tobacco.

          Periodically there are investigations where it is discovered (I am shocked to find gambling in this establishment!) that hookah bars are illegally packing tobacco pipes for their patrons.Report

          • Avatar Will Truman says:

            Colosse actually made room for Hookah Bars. The disconnect became too much, though, and so they loosened the no-smoking requirements for certain designated venues and allowed people to smoke cigarettes there, too.

            Seattle changed things up to allow cigar bars, but nonetheless banned smoking cigarettes in them. This falls under the category of “Don’t tell me there are no class issues at play here.”Report

  2. Avatar LeeEsq says:

    The people arguing against moving to Europe seem basically to be saying that life is different in different countries, which should seem obvious. When you have more people living in a small area like Germany’s 80 million in area about the size of California than your going to get smaller houses and apartments. Densely populated Europe is also going to be more transit friendly than less dense United States and Canada. All of this should be no brainer stuff.

    Iceland: I guess they like smoking more than drinking.

    UK: The Conservatives won in general with Corbyn. He not only has policies that most British people disagree with on domestic and foreign issues but he is a terrible spokesperson for those policies. His allies seem even worse. Corbyn also seems to get routinely trounced in debates. Cameron must be really happy.Report

  3. Avatar Alan Scott says:

    The next UK election is still almost 5 years away. Is it really likely that Corbyn will last that long as Labour Party leader?

    That said, I think his opposition to Trident is the least-ridiculous thing about Corbyn. In 2020, a 45 year old will have lived their entire adult life without the Cold War. Painting nuclear weapons as an absurd and dangerous relic of the 20th century is a policy that could resonate. Of course, that would work better coming from a Labour leader who isn’t himself an absurd and dangerous relic of the 20th century.Report