So, Can We Talk About This?

Burt Likko

Pseudonymous Portlander. Homebrewer. Atheist. Recovering Republican. Recovering Catholic. Recovering divorcé. Editor-in-Chief Emeritus of Ordinary Times. Relapsed Lawyer, admitted to practice law (under his real name) in California and Oregon. On Twitter, to his frequent regret, at @burtlikko. House Likko's Words: Scite Verum. Colite Iusticia. Vivere Con Gaudium.

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80 Responses

  1. Saul Degraw says:

    I am just gonna say that ROT13 makes this look like a document from an ancient land.. You can know be known as Sage Burt of Likko.Report

  2. Kolohe says:

    I liked how a major plot development was based on listening to a Podcast and not paying attention to the job you were supposed to be doing.

    Gur whzc phg bcraf gur qbbe sbe Fgnaavf gehguref. Uryy, vg xrrcf gur qbbe bcra sbe Ynql Fgbarurneg gehguref.

    Gurl’ir ercynprq gur Zbhagnva gjvpr, gurl pna ercynpr Wba Fabj, rfcrpvnyyl vs ur’f abj NN be n qver jbys be n PTV Avtug Xvat’f Pbzznaqre.

    Qbear jnf n pbzcyrgr jnfgr bs rirelbar’f gvzr naq gnyragf. Vg jnf tbbq gb trg Wnvzr bhg bs raqyrff grqvbhf evireynaq svtugvat, naq cnvevat uvz hc jvgu fbzrbar jub pna fcrnx jnf sne orggre guna Cnlar, ohg, ernyyl, jung na vaperqvoyl obgpurq rkrphgvba sebz fgneg gb svavfu. Gung cnynpr jnf ornhgvshy gubhtu.

    Gurer’f lbhghor ivqrbf bs Ehffvnaf (jub ryfr?) whzcvat bss zhyvgfgbel bssvpr & ncnegzrag

    edit: oh shoot you have links too? Didn’t catch that on the copypasta to rot13.comReport

    • Glyph in reply to Kolohe says:

      “Podcast” – groan

      V thrff vg jnf n bar-gvzr guvat jvgu Qnal fhccbfrqyl, ohg vs Wba unf Gnetnelra oybbq, znlor oheavat uvf obql gb cerirag jvtugubbq jba’g unir gur rssrpg gurl guvax vg jvyy?

      Gubhtu Znrfgre Nrzba ohearq whfg svar.Report

      • Kolohe in reply to Glyph says:

        vg frrzf gb zr (naq gb bguref ba gur vagrearg) gung Wba Fabj jba’g trg gur freivprf bs Gebtqbe naq uvf pbafhzzngr i’f. Gur Jngpu cebonoyl jba’g tvir uvz n cebcre Ivxvat shareny, orvat n genvgbe naq nyy, fb Fabj’f obql jvyy cebonoyl whfg or qhzcrq bhgfvqr Pnfgyr Oynpx – naq guhf ernql sbe arpebznapvat gur fgbar.Report

  3. LeeEsq says:

    Are we talking about the Cthulus mythos or Game of Thrones?

    How do you translate ROT13 into English or write it so you can discuss spoilers? I really don’t know.Report

  4. Glyph says:

    Ugh. An entire multi-point post in rot13 is a real pain to deal with on a tablet.Report

    • Burt Likko in reply to Glyph says:

      Sorry, man, I couldn’t figure out how to thread that needle efficiently and elegantly while eating lunch.Report

      • Glyph in reply to Burt Likko says:

        I don’t mean to complain, maybe later on a real computer I will get to this. There’s no easy way to encode/decode, and mobile Safari doesn’t want to let me copypasta the entire post for same (it gets twitchy when you try to select more than a paragraph or so of text).

        When I did the posts for The Americans, we mostly skipped rot13 – I simply put a spoiler warning on the front page, and one at the top of the post, and asked people to start their comments with boilerplate to prevent spoilers showing up in Gifts of Gab.Report

  5. Kolohe says:

    Fre Nyvfre Gubear trgf n erny fubeg fuevsg va gur fubj’f aneengvir. Ur fgebatyl qvfyvxrf Wba Fabj, naq unf yvggyr pbasvqrapr va uvf yrnqrefuvc novyvgvrf, ohg ur vf n “cebsrffvbany” rfcrpvnyyl ol gur fgnaqneqf bs gur Avtug’f Jngpu. Univat uvz yrnq gur Npg VVV Fprar 1 Cynlref vf vgfrys punenpgre nffnffvangvba.

    Naq nf gur vagrearg cbvagf bhg, cerggl qnza fghcvq. Jul yrg uvz va vs lbh jrer whfg tbvat gb orgenl Fabj naljnl? Abj lbh unir fbzrguvat yvxr 50-100 bs lbhe bja zra (jvgu pbasyvpgvat yblnygvrf) naq na nezl bs Jvyqvatf naq Jvyqvat pvivyvnaf ba lbhe fvqr bs gur jnyy jub jvyy vafgnagyl guvax gurl gurzfryirf unir orra orgenlrq.

    Gur fubj fubhyq unir fraq Gubear ba na reenaq yvxr gur obbxf qvq juvpu jbhyq unir tvira gur arj zhgvarref cbyvgvpny fcnpr gb jbex (orpnhfr gura gur bayl Wba Fabj rarzvrf jbhyq unir orra zheqreref, encvfgf, guvrirf naq Byyvr – abar bs jubz ner tbbq ng xrrcvat rvgure gur ehyrf&ertf be gur ovt cvpgher va zvaq)Report

    • Burt Likko in reply to Kolohe says:

      Creuncf, ohg gur Fre Nyyvfre va gur fubj vf gelvat gb znxr hc sbe univat orra rkvyrq gb gur Jnyy ol qrzbafgengvat uvf pbzcrgrapr guebhtu pbafbyvqngvat pbageby. Ur’f whfg n yrff ahnaprq svther ba GI — nygubhtu ur’f na nagntbavfg va gur obbxf gbb.

      Jung V jnag gb xabj vf jura ur tbg punyyratrq ol gur Avtug’f Jngpu Svefg pebjq, “Jul fubhyq jr yrg gur Jvyqyvatf guebhtu vafgrnq bs xvyyvat gurz?” Wba Fabj pbhyqa’g unir fnvq, “Fb gurl qba’g orpbzr zber vpr mbzovrf jr’er tbvat gb unir gb svtug yngre — naq znlor gurl rira uryc hf svtug jura gur gvzr pbzrf, fb gurl pna qvr vafgrnq bs lbh.” Frrzf yvxr na rnfl rabhtu cvgpu gb zr.Report

      • Troublesome Frog in reply to Burt Likko says:

        Frrzf yvxr n fhcre rnfl fryy. Lbh’q guvax gur svefg guvat Fabj jbhyq unir qbar ba uvf erghea jnf zrrg bar-ba-bar jvgu uvf Svefg Enatre naq fpner gur fuvg bhg bs uvz jvgu n svefgunaq nppbhag bs gubhfnaqf bs crbcyr ba gur jebat fvqr bs gur jnyy orpbzvat mbzovr jneevbef gung gurl’q unir gb svtug vafgrnq bs tvivat gung gnyx gb fbzrobql jub jnf nyernql ba uvf fvqr. Frrzf yvxr n cerggl tbbq jnl bs trggvat rirelobql baobneq.Report

    • Glyph in reply to Kolohe says:

      Lrnu, V unir bayl ernq gur svefg gjb obbxf ohg jung lbh ner fnlvat nobhg Gubear znxrf frafr. Ur’f na n-ubyr, ohg ur’f orra fubja hc hagvy abj gb or n zbfgyl-pbzcrgrag bar.Report

  6. Kazzy says:

    I think I understand GoT more having read this in Rot13 than having people explain it to me in plain English.Report

    • Burt Likko in reply to Kazzy says:

      Peter Dinklage summarized it nicely: “Sexy, sexy, sexy. Stabby, stabby, stabby.”

      There’s also “Game of Thrones in 30 seconds” which should be helpful.Report

      • Kazzy in reply to Burt Likko says:

        Zazzy got into it when it first came out. I watched a few minutes and said something about, “You know I don’t watch shit with dragons.”

        She responded, “There aren’t dragons.”
        “Just some people who are descended from dragons.”

        Cut to Season 2
        “How’s that show?”
        “Umm… there are dragons.”

        Or maybe it was season 3?Report

        • Kazzy in reply to Kazzy says:

          To elaborate, I’m really bad at watching fantasy stuff. I don’t do well suspending belief in that way. I get really fussy if the made up world doesn’t have consistent rules and logic. It is why I struggled with Harry Potter and can’t watch any of the super hero movies that aren’t about regular dudes in suits. I can watch the Fast and Furious movies because as silly as they are, at least they happen in a world I understand. Fantasy work too often seems to rely on deus ex machina for my taste. Which is really more about me than the genre.

          Also, “Lost”. Fuck “Lost”.Report

          • Glyph in reply to Kazzy says:

            After the disappointment that was Lost, I wouldn’t blame someone who went past dismissing a single genre, and simply gave up on television altogether.Report

            • Kazzy in reply to Glyph says:

              “Hey… what about all those story lines we started in Season 1, promised we wrapped up, and then didn’t?”
              “Um… let’s just bring someone back from the dead, make up new forms of island magic, and then go with the ending we explicitly told everyone we weren’t going to use.”
              “But that won’t make any sense.”

              • Kolohe in reply to Kazzy says:

                Don’t need to make sense when you can make dollars.Report

              • Hoosegow Flask in reply to Kazzy says:

                Lost was like a magician’s sleight of hand. They made me believe that all the quirks and mysteries were significant and meaningful. While it lasted it was a fantastic ride, perhaps the best I’ve experience with a TV show. The final season can’t take that away.Report

            • Kim in reply to Glyph says:

              Greenbacking is an issue with any Drama show these days… except Game of Thrones, because that has actual source material people Intend To Follow. (as in, people sold HBO on the entire multiseason arc).

              I’m currently in the middle of the second season of Orphan Black, and they are greenbacking it to hell. Also: totally not trying with “how did A know where B was?” or “okay, so she’s loose on foot in a forest. Now she got to a city?? How?”
              Sooo many stylepoints, but the world is no longer real.Report

              • Kolohe in reply to Kim says:

                Game of Thrones’ extended production schedules might be a unique feature of premium cable, but the audience has grown every year for the show. If anything, more traditional TV financing would push everyone involve to stretch out the show for another 5 years, rather than the 2 that are now scheduled. (and heck, HBO might, and probably will, extend the last season, maybe creating two 6-7 episode half seasons)Report

              • Kim in reply to Kolohe says:

                I like good plot arcs, it’s why I love anime so much — they’re not afraid to do a short, complex story (like Boogiepop Phantom). It doesn’t have to get strung out to make as much money as possible.Report

              • Burt Likko in reply to Kim says:

                Also: totally not trying with “how did A know where B was?” or “okay, so she’s loose on foot in a forest. Now she got to a city?? How?”

                Complicated by the fact that A and B and C and D look alike, and A and C are willing to wear costumes and adopt accents to pass themselves off as B and D. I agree that season 2 lacks some of the verisimlitude of season 1, but the whole guy-with-a-tail thing took me out of reality in season 1 anyway.Report

      • Chip Daniels in reply to Burt Likko says:

        Well, that’s his job. He knows things, and drinks.Report

  7. Glyph says:

    Apologies if this has already been hit in comments, I did not read them, but:

    Ab jnl qbrf Wba Fabj abg pbzr onpx sebz gur qrnq. Pbafvqre:

    Zryvfnaqer’f cerfrapr; ure pb-cevrfg unf orra fubja gb or noyr gb erfheerpg Orevp Qbaqneevba, naq fur vf cbffvoyl fgvyy rzcbjrerq ol Fuverra’f fnpevsvpvny oybbq zntvp.

    Nyfb, SenaxraZbhagnva (naq jvtugf) vaqvpngr inevbhf fbegf bs yvsr nsgre qrngu ner cbffvoyr.

    Nyfb, qlvat eryrnfrf Fabj sebz uvf Avtug’f Jngpu ibjf, naq serrf uvz gb qb…?*

    Nyfb, Fnz fnvq “Wba nyjnlf pbzrf onpx.” (Fcrnxvat bs, jung gur uryy, Tubfg? Lbh fnir Fnz’f nff naq abg Wba’f?!)

    *Wba unf tbar abegu orsber gb vasvygengr rarzl sbeprf. V fhfcrpg mbzovr Wba vf tbvat abegu ntnva, sbe fvzvyne ernfbaf.Report

  8. Glyph says:

    Also, how great is Qyburn? Sure, he’s a mad scientist involved in creating abominations against nature and the gods, but he also has a surprisingly tender bedside manner for Lannisters.Report

  9. Chris says:

    Is this a TV show y’all are takin’ about?Report

  10. Hoosegow Flask says:

    V gubhtug gur gevc gb Qbear jbhyq raq jvgu Qbena erirnyvat n fpurzr gb trg evq bs Gbzzra naq chg Gelfgnar’f orgebgurq ba gur guebar (orsber be nsgre gur jrqqvat).

    V jbhyq or qvfnccbvagrq vs vg gheaf bhg Fgnaavf vfa’g ernyyl qrnq. Oevraar unq n ybat fgnaqvat zvffvba gb xvyy uvz naq ab nccnerag ernfba gb xrrc uvz nyvir.

    V qb shyyl oryvrir Wba Fabj vf qrnq… ohg V’z abg pbaivaprq ur jvyy erznva gung jnl. Fher, nyy gur fghss nobhg uvf yvarntr pbhyq or n erq ureevat, ohg vg frrzf uneq gb oryvrir gurl’q whfg trg evq bs gur punenpgre yvxr gung.Report

    • Jason Tank in reply to Hoosegow Flask says:

      The actor who plays Jon Snow (Kit Harrington, I think his name is? Dreamy McDreamington? Whatever) kinda-sorta spoiled the ending all the way back in January. (That’s enough spoiler space, right?) He cut his hair. You only do that if you’re released for good. Sure, the character may ‘wolf’ back or something, but it ain’t going to be Dreamy playing him.Report

      • Glyph in reply to Jason Tank says:

        You know, you calling him “Dreamy” makes me realize he might make an OK Morpheus. He mostly just looks pensive anyway.

        Nyfb, unve tebjf onpx, vs lbh ner bayl fxvccvat n frnfba (cyhf, jvtf naq fhpu).Report

      • Kolohe in reply to Jason Tank says:

        I have not recently seen a better example of the ‘fog of war’ than the competing, and often contradictory assessments of the state of Kit Harrington’s hair in the various forums and social media during the 24 hour period following Sunday’s broadcast.Report

        • Glyph in reply to Kolohe says:

          We just got an extended scene with Lena’s head(ey) on another person’s body. I’m pretty sure HBO can contact the production crew of The Americans for hair technology assistance, if they need to.Report

          • Kolohe in reply to Glyph says:

            I’m just trying to make every post about a wig party while the topic is hot. Plus, the picture of Zach that now graces Dan Scotto’s post is itself very Games of Thrones-ish.Report

    • Glyph in reply to Hoosegow Flask says:

      Gur bayl ernfba Oevraar jbhyq cbffvoyl xrrc Fgnaavf nyvir vf vs fur gubhtug fur pbhyq hfr uvz fbzrubj gb serr Fnafn (erzrzore Wnvzr’f fcrrpu nobhg “fb znal ibjf”; fbzrgvzrf lbhe ibj gb xvyy Fgnaavf, pbasyvpgf jvgu lbhe ibj gb cebgrpg Fnafn).

      Creuncf fur guvaxf nf n xvat (fur qbrfa’g ernyvmr ubj sne ur’f snyyra) Fgnaavf jvyy or genqrnoyr fbzrubj, gb gur Obygbaf be bguref?

      Cyhf, ybbx ng nyy gur aneengvir gbegher Errx tbg jura ur orgenlrq “snzvyl”, naq ohearq fbzr xvqf.

      TEEZ/Q&Q/gur Obygbaf znl abg or qbar jvgu Fgnaavf’ chavfuzrag lrg; abg ol n ybat fubg.Report

  11. aaron david says:

    Lbh xabj jub jbhyq yvxr uvz gb or n mbzovr? Gvan Orypure

  12. Kolohe says:

    From Twitter, perfect for a Likko post: “Game of Thrones continues to show what the world would be like without lawyers”Report

    • Kim in reply to Kolohe says:

      I’m pretty sure you mean “what the world IS LIKE without lawyers.”
      Not everyone’s a lawabiding citizen, after all.Report

    • Burt Likko in reply to Kolohe says:

      GoT’s world has laws. Stannis Baratheon’s claim to power is principally predicated on law, as opposed to wealth (Tywin Lannisters’ and the Tyrells’ foundation to power) or strength (Robert Baratheon’s or Robb Stark’s) or justice (Ned Stark’s or the High Sparrow’s) or intelligence and ability (Tyrion Lannister’s) or charisma (Renly Baratheon’s).

      Danaerys Targaryen remains the last contender for the throne we can root for because she’s taking the time to gather all of these things instead of relying on only one or two of them. If she can pull it off, she’ll be the answer to Varys’ riddle.

      And GoT has trials that are sometimes on the merits of the issue. Tyrion was put on trial on the merits twice, in the Aerie and in King’s Landing, Loras and Margaery and Cersei put on trial by the High Sparrow, all on the merits of their purported crimes. Some of them chose the alternative to an inquisitorial examination of the merits of trial by combat. But the inquisitorial trials in which witnesses testify and the decider of fact directly examines those witnesses is well-precede red in the real world.

      No, there aren’t people who specialize in the law in the world of GoT, but there is very clearly a (deeply flawed, in ways that its participants can only sometimes see) justice system. And just like in the real world, the outcomes that each person calls “just” and “fair” dovetail exactly with their own personal advantage.Report

      • Kim in reply to Burt Likko says:

        Pretty sure a good deal of the rulers have some specialty in law — it’s never a full-time lawyer, but I’d be shocked if Tyrion doesn’t know his law backwards and forwards, and if Jaime doesn’t know at least “battle law” (what is and is not allowed on a battlefield, and in war in general). And I’m pretty sure everyone’s familiar with the laws around marriage & betrothals (not that I am, particularly… but there’s got to be something codified there).Report

        • Burt Likko in reply to Kim says:

          I notice there seems to be no such thing as divorce in Martin’s world. Seems you can remarry once you’re widowed, but that’s about it. Only exception seems to be Sansa, who is still technically married to Tyrion, whose status is unknown to anyone in Westeros, but somehow everyone seems to overlook that fact with respect to Ramsay (perhaps because she and Tyrion never consummated?).Report

          • Glyph in reply to Burt Likko says:

            Yvggyrsvatre rkcyvpvgyl gryyf Ebbfr gung Glevba naq Fnafn arire pbafhzzngrq, ohg gur jubyr Fnafn-Enzfrl guvat unf orra unaqyrq n yvggyr hapyrneyl gb zr.

            Gur Obygbaf nterrq gb n Fnafn-Enzfrl zneevntr, gb ubcrshyyl hfr gur Fgnex anzr gb pbafbyvqngr gurve ubyq va gur Abegu.

            Ohg, gur jrqqvat vgfrys jnf n fznyy Fgnex-fglyr nssnve va gur tbqfjbbq – irel cevingr, naq pbagen gur Obygbaf’ fhccbfrq checbfrf, fbeg bs frpergvir. Jbhyqa’g gurl jnag rirelbar gb frr gur jrqqvat?Report

            • Kim in reply to Glyph says:

              Waiting until they have a heir?Report

            • Burt Likko in reply to Glyph says:

              Yeah, that’s a damn good point. One the one hand, fznyy cevingr prerzbavrf va gur tbqfjbbq ner jung jrqqvatf ner yvxr jura lbh jbefuvc gur Byq Tbqf, naq vg’f vzcbegnag sbe gur Obygbaf gb unir gung phygheny pbagvahvgl gb xrrc pynvz gb yrnqrefuvc va gur Abegu. Fb gur fpnyr bs gur prerzbal qbrfa’g obgure zr.

              But then you’re absolutely right that gurl nera’g znxvat irel tbbq hfr bs Fnafn abj gung gurl unir ure (bfgrafvoyl) jvguva gurve pnzc.

              Maybe gur Obygbaf nera’g fb tbbq ng gur cbyvgvpf bs cbchyvfz?

              Or maybe gurl xabj shyy jryy jung Enzfnl jbhyq or qbvat gb Fnafn va gur znevgny punzore, naq gurersber pna’g gehfg ure abg gb npg bhg va choyvp?Report

            • Kolohe in reply to Glyph says:

              To your question – in addition to what Burt said, Winter is Coming. They made a comment way back during King Robert’s visit to Winterfell that the stores weren’t quite where they would like them to be at this point in the seasonal cycle, and that Robert and his entourage were making an ill-timed dent in their reserves. Since then, there’s been nothing but war, iron born raids, and more war, so the resources for a big wedding probably simply aren’t there, and would be an very ill-advised use of them even if they were.

              Also, Roose Bolton just came from a big fancy festive wedding where the band played “The Rains of Castamere”. He most certainly didn’t want the band to play “Alanis Morrissette: Greatest Hits” at his son’s wedding.Report

          • Kim in reply to Burt Likko says:

            I suspect the South goes with an “unconsummated marriage didn’t happen” level of divorce… with a very broad definition of unconsummated (if you didn’t actually have a living breathing baby, it wasn’t consummated, at least in the eyes of people who’d rather have you marry someone else).Report

  13. Tod Kelly says:

    V’yy whfg fnl gung V’z abg ragveryl fher gb jung qrterr gb gehfg qrnguf va guvf fubj. Boivbhfyl, zhpu bs guvf pbzrf sebz univat ernq gur obbxf, juvpu unir punenpgref cbccvat onpx gb yvsr gung jr unir’q frra fvapr gurl jrer ohzcrq bss.

    Fgvyy, V guvax vg’f jbegu abgvat gung jvgu sbhe bs gur qrnguf guvf frnfba: Gur Ubhaq, Fgnavf, Errx naq Fgnafn, jr arire fnj gurz qvr naq jr arire fnj obqvrf. Orpnhfr bs guvf V’q fnl abg gb pbhag nal bs gubfr sbhe bhg.

    Naq va grezf bs Ze. Fabj, V qba’g xabj gung V gehfg gur oruvaq gur fprarf pbagenpg gnyx va vafgnaprf jurer gurl ner gelvat gb xrrc n yvq ba guvatf. Unir znvagnvarq sbe n juvyr, naq fgvyy qb, gung gur bayl jnl gur gbgny fgbel jbexf vf sbe na riraghny havba bs Wba Fabj naq Qlarevhf nsgre gurl pbzr gbtrgure gb raq jvagre. Nalguvat ryfr vf whfg xvaq bs avuvyvfz, V guvax.

    (Orfvqrf, V guvax vs Wba Fabj jnf ernyyl tbar gurl jbhyqa’g unir qbar fhpu n ohvyq hc jvgu ab vasb rire qebccvat nohg jub uvf gehr cneragntr vf.)Report

    • Kolohe in reply to Tod Kelly says:

      They did drop some info, in the ‘previouslys’ (not this last one*) which I think gives even more support to your stance. (and which I agree with)

      *btw, that reminds me, the last episode’s “Previously” was a Maester-Class Troll job. Kudos all around.Report

  14. Kolohe says:

    Other small characterization misstep imo – Ynql Zryvfnaqer

    bx, guvf jbzna unf orra nyy ‘ohpx hc yvggyr pnzcre, gur Ybeq bs Yvtug vf Angvbajvqr’ va gur snpr bs rirel bofgnpyr naq frgonpx, ohg svanyyl guebjf va gur gbjry jura gur ynfg cneg bs gur pninyel qrfregf? Ohg bayl gura? Abg nsgre gur qrsrng ng Oynpxjngre, be nalgvzr qhevat gur ybat qhengvba bs serrmvat gurve ghpxhfrf bss orgjrra gur Jnyy naq gur nccebnpurf gb Jvagresryy?

    Gur fubj qvq n irel cbbe wbo bs fubjvat jul fur gubhtug ure ivfvbaf unq snvyrq ure.

    The internet is more negative on the Faith Militant than they should be. Their actions are more about class than about religion or denigrating a woman for being a woman.

    who knew that Wnvzr ‘Yrsgl’ Ynaavfgre would be the one to win the Sngure bs gur Lrne trophy for 2015?

    which raises the question, who should be the previous winners? My noms

    2011 (Season 1) – Arq Fgnex
    2012 (Season 2) – Gljva Ynaavfgre
    2013 (Season 3) – Znapr Enlqre
    2014 (Season 4) – Ebbfr Obygba (?) (!)Report

    • Glyph in reply to Kolohe says:

      RE: your first point, agreed. It’s too bad that this show couldn’t do the classic “hear a car door slam and drive off” comedy sound effect.

      RE: your second and the Jaime scene, was I the only one that was worried for a second there that a certain family tradition was in danger of being perpetuated?

      RE: the Faith Militant, the carved stars in their monks’ (or initiates’, or whatever the heck Lancel is) foreheads are a really effective low-budget creep factor. Every time I see them, the show turns a little bit horror.Report

    • Tod Kelly in reply to Kolohe says:

      @kolohe V’ir unq n gurbel nobhg guvf gung cerqngrf guvf rcvfbqr, juvpu vf gung Zryvfnaqer fnj zber bs gur shgher guna fur rire yrg ba gb Fgnavf — naq gung cneg bs jung fur unq frra jnf gung ur jnf *abg* gur thl jub jnf tbvat gb or nebhaq gb or gur xvat ng gur raq bs gur qnl.

      Gur jnl V vagrecerg gur Zryvfnaqer punenpgre vf gung fur vf rivy, naq juvyr fur qbrf zbir purff cvrprf va n jnl gung zvtug uryc cbfvgvba uhznaf gb fheivir gur pbzvat jne jvgu gur JJf, fur bayl qbrf fb va n jnl gung nqinaprf ure bja crefbany nzovgvbaf. V qba’g guvax fur rire “oryvrirq” va Fgnavf gur zna be gur xvat. V guvax fur whfg fnj uvz nf n gbby sbe ure gb hfr.

      Naq fb zl vagrecergngvba bs ure ernpgvba gb gur fnq arjf gung fabjl zbeavat jnf gung fur jnf fnlvat gb urefrys, “Bu penc, GUVF vf jurer ur svanyyl ovgrf gur qhfg. Gvzr gb trg gur uryy bhg bs Qbqtr.”Report

      • Burt Likko in reply to Tod Kelly says:

        I suppose that’s a viable theory, @tod-kelly , ohg V guvax vg’f zber yvxryl gung fur unq n ivfvba va gur synzrf naq vagrecergrq vg n pregnva jnl. Yvxr bgure uhzna orvatf, fur tbg rivqrapr, ohg fur nyfb pnzr gb gur rivqrapr jvgu pregnva yrafrf, ovnfrf, naq qrfverf — naq fb fur zbyqrq ure vagrecergngvba bs gur rivqrapr gb zngpu jung fur jnagrq gb or gehr. Fur unfa’g rire npghnyyl yvrq nobhg nalguvat gung V pna erpnyy.

        Gura, fur tbg rivqrapr gung znqr ure unir gb pbasebag gur snpg gung fur’q yrafrq gur rivqrapr vapbeerpgyl. Fb fur phg ure ybffrf.Report

  15. ktward says:

    Was rot13 really necessary here? I mean, couldn’t y’all have just warned “Spoilers ahead!” and let adults self-monitor? (A rare instance where I don’t read OT comments.)


    The HBO series has, from its beginning, variously digressed from the book series. Now it’s official. As a fan of both, I’ve always been okay with this. Indeed, I love that there’s now no reason to think anyone has an inside guess as to what’s gonna be revealed come next April on HBO anymore than we might guess what Martin reveals in his next book.

    I’m giddy with anticipation of both!Report

  16. Alan Scott says:

    Danaerys and Melisandre’s scene was SO HOT I hope… Okay, this is actually just text to keep semi-spoilers out of the sidebar.

    The plot line I’m most happy with from this season is Arya’s. It does what this show is traditionally good at: Capturing the journey of the characters from the books and showing us an interesting world, but keeping that world a little bit more connected and moving the plot forward a little bit faster.

    King’s landing comes in second place–In particular, I feel like the show managed to capture the menace of the Faith Militant in ways that the book really didn’t. My only complaint is that we didn’t get to see what happened to the Tyrells after their arrest–Maergary and Loras are both interesting characters in their own right, and I’d have loved to see them get more screen time in the second half of the season.

    The Stannis thread, though, just didn’t work for me. I feel like they didn’t do enough to sell the conflict he faced–and when he makes the big important decision he did in the last episode, it seems more like laziness than strength of purpose. In particular, his wife’s actions seemed out of character for someone who up until now has been portrayed as pretty heartless, and seem more like lazy writing than anything else.

    Likewise, Dorne was a waste. Even though the book version was too slow, the reveal of Doran’s motivations at the end of Feast for Crows was a great payoff–and I’d be a lot more forgiving of the missteps in this plotline if we’d seen that happen here in the show.Report

    • Kolohe in reply to Alan Scott says:

      I wonder if the House of Black and White has some sort of book that catalogs their extensive collection. I would like it if I saw it, and share it if I had it. Not sure what they would call it, though.

      Now that’s out of the way, there’s plenty of decisions that Benioff&Weiss’s made that should be second guessed. I am, though, a bit more forgiving of the decisions they made for the Stannis plotline, because I don’t have good alternative. (and the books don’t either). Deus Ex Ramsay was terrible way to set up the endgame, but I’m not sure how else they could have done it and brought the plot to the point they are at now. Part of the problem was that Stephen Dillane was so good, the quicktime march to the end (both literally and figuratively) was a weak play of a strong hand. I think it’s also an issue of Stannis being one of the few characters whose demise was long foreshadowed and had a comeuppance that was deserved. Characters have been suddenly killed and for undeserved reasons for so long, it might be that the end of Stannis is kind of a let down, for the build up it had.Report

  17. North says:

    The season was kindof meh meh meh for me but then the books were halfway meh meh meh for me as well.

    At the moment the Sansa alterations are worse than the books, the Daenerys changes are better and the rest basically a wash. I’d not there’s no way Snow is dead-dead, more’s the pity.Report

    • Kim in reply to North says:

      Where do whores go?
      *giggle* I just started reading Dune (I’m about halfway through).
      Is GoT going to be worse than Dune by the time it ends up being finished?Report

      • Kolohe in reply to Kim says:

        Probably not, Martin already got three solid books out of ASOI&F so far, while Herbert only got two. (though the first is far superior to than anything in the ASOI&F canon)Report

      • Burt Likko in reply to Kim says:

        IMO the second half of Children of Dune and the entirety of God-Emperor were psychedelic mush that wound up obscuring whatever they had to say behind a fascination with the … I suppose I shouldn’t spoil it for you. But Frank Herbert deserves praise for coming up with a world in which his characters think and act in truly different ways than modernity, although he goes so far with that it becomes hard for today’s readers to extract more than narrative entertainment from it.

        In Martin’s magnum opus, the characters think and act in ways we can understand and relate to readily.Report

  18. Michael Cain says:

    Somewhat off topic, but I realized the other day that I’m no longer looking forward to GRRM publishing the next volume. It’s not because I watch the TV version; I don’t. I think it’s just that it’s been so long since the last one, and his writing was so out of control (George — let the editors do their job), that I just don’t care any more.Report