Mount Rushmore — Super Edition
Guess what I know next-to-nothing about? Super heroes.
Guess what I’m going to do a Mount Rushmore of this week? Super heroes!
1. Superman
2. Spider-Man
3. Wolverine
4. Gambit
Why? FUCK IF I KNOW! Those four seem either important and/or cool.
No Batman? No Iron Man? Of course not. They’re not super heroes. There is nothing super about them. They’re just rich dudes with fancy shit. I’m not putting Richard Branson or Elon Musk on the list, so why would I put those guys?
Once the kilt had been invented
Superman is basically mandatory; I suspect that the term “Superhero” itself comes from the big blue boyscout himself.
I submit that batman also required. He and superman together encapsulate the DC universe of superheroes, light to dark, powered to unpowered, dim to genius.
With those two placed then it seems to me that the other two spots should lean towards Marvel characters. Wolverine seems like a no brainer due to his ubiquity yet I am not entheused at including him. Spider man is perhaps a better fit. Marvel’s universe and characters are fundamentally more complex and more human than DC heroes so I struggle to pick two that cover the gamut like S&B do for DC.
I note with dismay that I haven’t included a woman superhero. I am afraid this probably accurately reflects the male-centredness of the genre.Report
Everything North said, except ditch Wolverine and include Buffy.
Yes, she’s a superhero. She’s essentially a female Peter Parker, with better jokes and higher stakes (no pun intended, for once).Report
I endorse this alteration.Report
Also, batman kicked superman’s ass.Report
Hmmm… Superman, Batman (the city and region in Turkey), Spider Man, and Mighty Mouse.
I select these mostly because they’re the cartoons I watched when I was a kid. I don’t know much about the actual workings of the superhero universe outside of those cartoons and the more recent films.Report
Yes to Mighty Mouse, and let’s all also include Underdog.Report
Definitely. If you can rise from mouse and dog to superhero status, you’ve clearly gone further and done more than less than some alien from a planet with vastly superior technological knowledge and a rich dude from a slightly dingier version of New York.Report
Well, if we are using ‘stations traversed’ as a criteria, Swamp Thing should get in. He started out like some stuff that you found growing in the leftovers from last Tuesday.Report
It’s in!
Perhaps also that giant caterpillar from Monsters vs. Aliens.Report
I say if the project starts running out of money, we include Ben Grimm, ‘cos that one will be easy.Report
Or Concrete (Anyone ever read those? Worth reading? I’ve always been curious.)
(Though for the purposes of Mt. Rushmore, it seems like his hook is that he’s NOT a superhero.)Report
glyph,
Yeah… I’d sooner see someone from Oddman 11 get on there…Report
Greatest American Hero, for the hair and the landing.Report
1. The Toxic Avenger
2. The Mask
3. Kick-Ass
4. Mr. FuriousReport
So, upon further reflection, RE: Kazzy’s exclusion of Batman on grounds of simply being a rich dude with toys – is he onto something there? What makes Batman different from James Bond? For all we know, Bond has some tragic backstory too.
Is it that Bats acts on his own, without (official) govt. sanction? But if a vigilante is automatically a superhero, then so is Zorro, and that can’t be right. Is it that some of his foes have superpowers?
I think Iron Man can slide in on a technicality, in that he’s a cyborg (it’s not *just* the suit, his body is also powered by mechanical means). So he’s not *just* a rich dude with toys.
But on the other hand, we can’t just go calling every guy with a souped-up pacemaker a superhero. That would be anarchy.Report
Also – and I know only slightly more than Kazzy about superheroes so maybe this is my answer – but who the fish is Gambit* and why should he/she be on Mt. Rushmore?
*I mean, OK, I looked him up – he can throw CARDS?! Way to strike terror into the hearts of cowardly, superstitious villains there, chief.Report
I liked using Gambit in the XMen video game I played when I was like 10.Report
Hisoka show that done right, a jester can be quite terrifying.Report
OK, Kim, you’re the only other anime person on these boards as far as I know, so – who would you pick for an anime/manga Mount Rushmore of superheroes? My first thought is:
Goku
Lelouch
Ichigo
Gon FreecsReport
Pinky,
I think Will watches some too.
But you’ve got WAY too many determinators on that list.
Trigun
Vampire Princess Miyu (Resident Mage!)
Naoto Shirogane (Detectives are FUN!)
Sana-chan (from Kodomo no Omocha — you always need a speedster).
I badly want to put Panty and Stocking on this list, but… too little space.
(Also, three out of four of those series’ you mention I haven’t seen yet. So little time… Must see Bleach at some point, though).Report
Too many determinators? That’s because they’re iconic leads. There are other characters I like better, but this is Mount Rushmore (or, I guess, Fuji). I definitely like Vash for the list though.Report
@pinky
Kamijou Touma belongs on the list. He’s certainly more awesome than Kurosaki IchigoReport
That show is definitely on my list.Report
I just finished Gurren Lagann. The Paragon of Manliness, Kamina, will carve himself on the mountain with the power of his fighting spirit! That’s the Team Gurren Lagann way! Do you think you can stop him? Who the hell do you think he is?!Report
I’d refer you to Wagon’s excellent description below on Batman.Report
I think Iron Man can slide in on a technicality, in that he’s a cyborg (it’s not *just* the suit, his body is also powered by mechanical means). So he’s not *just* a rich dude with toys
The thing about Iron Man is that it is neither the suit nor the souped-up pacemaker that makes Tony Stark Iron Man. It is Tony Stark himself. Same way that it is not the toys which make Bruce Wayne Batman, it is Bruce Wayne himself. And that is what makes these guys more awesome than any muscle-bound alien from a destroyed planet.Report
1) Superman
2) Wonder Woman
3) Spiderman
Thanks to Zod, Mt. Rushmore of superheroes only has 3 faces.Report
THANKS ZODReport
You’re welcome.Report
If Batman isn’t on the list because equipment, how do we come down on Green Lantern?Report
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic? There ought to be a magic user on the list somewhere. After all, Superman had no defenses against magic.Report
The Spectre.Report
Mom.Report
Close the door! 😉Report
1. Batman – You’ve got to include at least one superhero that falls into the “perfection of a normal man” category. As absurd as some of the stuff he does is, and as ridiculous as Wayne’s wealth is, Batman falls into this category. He’s also got the “world’s greatest detective” thing going on, and he falls into the dark, tragic antihero category. You’ve also got the “who’s the real person and who’s the mask” debate going on there. And he has the best rogues’ gallery.
2. Superman – Yeah, whatever. I guess you have to include him. I’ve always thought he was boring. Too perfect. Too indestructible. Too powerful. But I guess he’s pretty much the prototype.
Those first two are easy. Here’s where it gets more difficult.
3. Spider-Man – I think this fills the “give a normal guy super powers” category. You get the struggle of juggling super life and normal life, the impact on friends and family, and the difficult question of what, if anything, do you do with those powers. The “with great power comes great responsibility” line is a classic trope of comics, and Uncle Ben is one of the handful of characters that can never, ever be resurrected.
4. The Hulk – The Hulk is basically the id, a giant rage-monster who is virtually indestructible. The struggle between Hulk and Bruce Banner is the same old “Jekyll and Hyde” story, although in this case Hyde is a hero of sorts, albeit one who sometimes has to be shot into space because he causes so much damage on earth.
Honorable mentions: Captain America, for the whole “chosen to be a superhero because of his character” aspect; and Iron Man/Tony Stark, for the superhero as tech-geek aspect.
No women? No, no women. The most noteworthy, high-profile female superhero is Wonder Woman, and I have just never found her particularly interesting. I’m not going to include a female superhero just to do so. My list is my list. If I were going to include a woman, it would be Captain Marvel, but I just like the above selections better.Report
Is the criteria based on iconicism or awesomeness?
Iconicism:
1. Superman
2. Wonder Woman
3. Spiderman
4. Captain America
Awesomeness:
1. Spectre
2. Captain Atom
3. Martian Manhunter
4. Geist the Twilight ManReport
Whatever you want it to be! I went with “Names I knew”. But normally I blend awesomeness, iconicism, and influence/relevance. But that’s just me!Report
Is Wonder Woman all that “iconic”, though?
I mean, certainly Lynda Carter made an…impression on me, as a young boy, but does anyone really like her character or think of her as an archetype, unless they are just scrambling to think of a female superhero?
ETA: That theme music was iconic though.Report
http://parahumans.wordpress.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Pryde
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm_(Marvel_Comics)
Memorable trio, no?Report
Nobody has to actually like an icon. They just have to be recognizable and within the public perception of “superhero.” Yeah, she does benefit greatly by being the token female.
I personally have little use for Wonder Woman. Not because she’s a woman. One of my two favorite characters of all time is female! But she suffers a bit from having to be the woman for all seasons, by virtue of the fact that she’s The Lone Woman. I collected the first seventy issue or so of Birds of Prey (a female-centric superhero team), but only have a dozen or so Wonder Woman comics, and it was during a stint where Wonder Woman herself wasn’t appearing in them. (I have similar feelings about Superman, though I do have more of his comics than WW’s.)
(Wolverine would actually be on this list, if there wasn’t such a distinction between comic book Wolverine and movie Wolverine.)Report
The thing to remember about Wonder Woman is that she was much more interesting in her early days than when she went mainstream in the golden age / silver age. And even then, although she is the iconic female superhero, she’s not, and never has been, the token one.Report
If we have to have a female on the list, it should probably be Elastigirl from the greatest superhero movie of all time.Report
comment in modReport
Worst superhero ever. All it takes is an overactive spam filter to defeat him.Report
Those sound like characters from http://www.thesuperest.com/ (I’m sorry if you had something productive you needed to do today).Report
Superman and Batman are givens.
Spiderman is the top of the Marvel universe, so I guess he gets in. Marvel doesn’t do “iconic” the way DC does, although they do better characters.
Wolverine is more of a newcomer. He could easily be on the list. I think Professor X is more iconic though. But for the fourth slot, I want Rorschach. The most iconic character from Watchman. The darkest of the dark, a great gimmick, and a quote-generator like no other. The strongest argument against him is that with Batman on Mount Rushmore, he’s almost redundant. If someone could talk me into Superman, Wonder Woman, and Spiderman, then Rorschach is perfect.Report
Spiderman is the top of the Marvel universe…
Growing up and saving my dimes back in the days when the Marvel crop of heroes were new, Spidey was cool, and I always had a soft spot for Daredevil, but Reed Richards’ Mr. Fantastic was the top dog that everyone deferred to.Report
I’ve been staying away from the Four, because if you’re going to do a Mount Rushmore, it’s too tempting. (Ditto with Superfriends.)Report
@pinky
Bah. The other three are just sidekicks. My standard would be, who do you want in a huge end-of-the-world scenario. Superman and Mr. Fantastic make that list, but it’s a big step down to whoever comes next. Spidey and the Batman are terrific on a save-the-city scale, but don’t make the big time.Report
@michael-cain – which is why you want someone with Buffy’s CV. She saved the world, a lot.Report
1. Greatest American Hero – It’s in the name
2. Groo – Emobidies the American fighting spirit. Powerful, well-intentioned, and unconcerned that the outcome is worse than before they started.
3. Dazzler – Flash over substance
4. A giant brain, representing all super-geniuses. They have the ability to quickly create fantastic new inventions to solve the extraordinary problems, and are completely uninterested in tackling serious issues faced by the mundanes.Report
How the f**k do you have a Mt. Rushmore that doesn’t have Batman? Hell, I’d argue that Mt. Rushmore should just be Batman carved four different times.
But since that is against the rules, I’ll go with the classics:
1. Batman
2. Superman
3. Spiderman
4. Spawn
I almost went with WW for #4, but I feel like for most of her published life she was really dull. It feels like it’s only been in the past couple of decades that she’s been morphed into something more interesting.
Supe gets in on iconic status alone, despite the fact that he might well be the dullest superhero ever.Report
Nah, Superman’s really interesting. Like there was this one time when Lex Luthor used kryptonite, and no one expected that. and I think there was, oh, wait, that was kryptonite again…Report
Respectful yellow card, My Todd, Spawn kills people (a lot of people- like a -LOT- of people*). At the very best he’s an antihero (arguable THE antihero) but he ain’t no superhero.
*And not always bad people either.Report
Like Will, I distinguish between iconicness and awesomeness.
I’m going with awesomness for my four. Iconicness is for suckers.
Best Power Set to Have: The Silver Surfer
* (way better than Superman)
Most Badass: Grimjack
* (take Bruce Wayne and put him in a child gladiator pit instead of growing up with Alfred and money)
Most Fun Set of Powers to Have: Spiderman
* (seriously)
Best Antihero:
* John Constantine
Best Costume Award goes to a Villain so I don’t have to include him, but for reference:
* DeathstrokeReport
instead of growing up with Alfred and money
SUPER RICH
KINDA MAKES IT BETTER!!!!!Report
It certainly makes it easier than, “You have no friends, no guardians, and now go out in the arena and kill that other kid”Report
Kazzy has explicitly given permission to be quite personal and subjective, so here goes:
1. Spiderman. This needs little justification. However, IIRC, Spiderman was created to be Superman, only better. So I’m leaving Supes off. Superman is boring, Spiderman is not.
2. Rogue. Specifically the Rogue of the 90’s animated X-Men. She rocked it so hard. Where Storm is maybe more powerful, she is also aloof and remote. Jean Gray seemed plagued by doubt and insecurity, at least in that same series. But Rogue was out there and nearly unstoppable, having overcome some enormous personal obstacles. I love her to death.
3. Goku, of Dragonball and Dragonball Z. This guy is so engaging and personable. He’s what Superman should have been. He once hit a villain so hard it knocked some moons out of orbit or something. And yet he could die, did die, and managed to make friends and influence people while dead, too. And it’s about him that the famous phrase “It’s over 9000!” was uttered. (Google it.) Besides, the idea of that hair on Mt. Rushmore really amuses me.
4. I’m having a lot of trouble with this slot. I might put Batman, but the terms say that Batman doesn’t count. There are a lot of superheroes from one-shot works that I might put here – Buffy, River Tam of “Firefly”, Clair of “Heroes”, Li Mu Bai of “Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon” (if you can walk on water, I think we can call you a superhero) – but that seems non-Rushmore worthy. Screw it, I’m putting Batman here anyway.Report
I’d forgotten about how important Rogue was in the cartoon. I think that Kitty Pryde was the breakout female character in the comics.
I also like the choice of The Cheerleader.Report
1. Wolverine…..mmmmm Wolverine
2. Deadpool shhh my common sense is tingling
3. Hit Girl Shows over motherfishers!
4. and to muddy the waters Aquaman! with the power to annoy fishReport
I decided to go with the superheroes that had the greatest impact on my childhood. Damn you Kazzy for only allowing four, as poor Tiny was left out.
1) Mark
2) Keyop
3) Princess
4) JasonReport