Mount Rushmore – Baseball Edition

Kazzy

One man. Two boys. Twelve kids.

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39 Responses

  1. greginak says:

    Joe Shlabotnik- He is symbolic of the love people have for individual players and how they follow them.Report

  2. Ha! Your list is perfect. Anyone who disagrees with any of your selections is either dumb or evil. And is definitely an anti-American Communist.Report

    • Kazzy in reply to Mark Thompson says:

      GAME OVER!!!Report

      • Mike Schilling in reply to Kazzy says:

        There was a time that the Dodgers haf the best closer in baseball and the Giants one of the worst. Whenever Eric Gagne came into a home game, the scoreboard would light up with GAME OVER. There was a joke going around that when Armando Benitez came in, it should say “Mission Accomplished.”

        (No politics.)Report

      • Kazzy in reply to Kazzy says:

        Eventually Gagne ended up with the Red Sox. At which point, fans became convinced he was on a mission to blow games in as excruciating a fashion as possible. I remember one game in particular. Well, I semi-remember it. His antics caused me to go from “enjoyably drunk” to “belligerent”. I punched a wall.

        I hate Gagne.Report

  3. Mo says:

    I could make a case for Tommy John. He ushered in the era of players undergoing extreme medical treatments to recover from injury. Hard to throw out anyone from there.Report

  4. EB says:

    I like the way the question is framed-“telling the story” rather than simply “these are the four best.” Given that, my first thought was “Bonds better be there!” Hard to argue with any of those choices, although there’s something missing from a story of baseball in 2014 that doesn’t involve any Latin American/Hispanic players. Clemente? A-Rod (mostly for the labor relations stuff that Flood touches on;biggest contract ever, etc)?Report

    • Kazzy in reply to EB says:

      I considered Clemente for that last spot but did not mention him. I think it is too early with ARod to know what his legacy will ultimately be.Report

  5. Saul DeGraw says:

    1. Cy Young

    2. Shoeless Joe Jackson

    3. Jackie Robsinson

    4. Sandy Koufax or Hank GreenbergReport

    • Chris in reply to Saul DeGraw says:

      Any list without Babe Ruth is automatically disqualified.Report

    • LeeEsq in reply to Saul DeGraw says:

      As an admitted non-sports guy, what do you know about baseball?Report

    • Saul DeGraw in reply to Saul DeGraw says:

      Sandy Koufax and Hank Greenberg because they both famously refused to play in the World Series when a game fell on Yom Kippur. So it is about assimilation and how being part of America means respecting your culture and past.Report

      • Kazzy in reply to Saul DeGraw says:

        But I’m not sure it really changed anything, Saul. I know Shawn Green rather famously sat out some games played on Jewish holidays, but a number of players play and games are still scheduled on those days.Report

      • Saul DeGraw in reply to Saul DeGraw says:

        But they showed you could sit out without being punished or penalized by a non-Jewish majority.Report

      • Kazzy in reply to Saul DeGraw says:

        Was there real concern — in baseball or elsewhere — that Jews would be penalized/punished for not working on major holidays? I ask this genuinely… I don’t know what the law or culture allowed/dictated at that time.Report

      • Chris in reply to Saul DeGraw says:

        No, there was no talk of repercussions. Hell, it was Koufax. It’s not like they were going to keep him from pitching in the next game.

        My impression is that Koufax’s decision was more of a symbolic moment for Jewish Americans than it was a moment for baseball. And understandably so.Report

      • Mo in reply to Saul DeGraw says:

        Eh, that seems pretty niche and relatively unimportant in the grand scheme of the history of baseball. If anything Daniel Murphy has a bigger impact with the backlash to the criticism for him taking paternity leave.Report

  6. RTod says:

    Given the parameters o your Rushmore, don’t you have to include Ray Chapman?

    Two of your players — indeed the two everyone seems to agree need to be there, Ruth and Bonds — don’t get there without Chapman.Report

    • Kazzy in reply to RTod says:

      I had to Google who Chapman was. While the long-term impact of his passing was undoubtedly integral to the game, I’m not sure that it makes Chapman himself special. Were it not him, it would have been someone else. I think that matters. And I don’t think the same can be said for people like Flood and Robinson, whose actions took courage. Chapman was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.Report

  7. Mike Schilling says:

    1 You’ve got a pitcher, and a great one,

    2. Curt Flood lost, and nothing changed. That slot should go to Marvin Miller.

    3. Baseball goes back a long ways. The National Association (deceased) was started in 1871 and the National League (still with us) in 1876, but your choices for the pivotal part of its story are from the 1920s and later. I’d add at least one older figure:

    Albert Spalding: the first well-known player to use a glove (and, of course, the founder of the most famous company to make them.)

    Harry Wright: innovator (creator of, for instance, the defensive shift) and founder of the first professional team.

    Cap Anson: also an innovator (spring training, base coaches), and the man most responsible for segregation. It would serve him right to have to spend eternity next to Jackie.

    4, Also, Willie Mays. Because he’s Willie Mays.Report

    • Kazzy in reply to Mike Schilling says:

      Were I to have considered non-players, Miller would have probably gotten the fourth slot.

      I have trouble with guys who aren’t instantly recognizable names. But maybe that is unfair.

      Mays was also considered for that last spot. I’ve always had a soft spot for him. Considering he played CF and post-segregation, if I was picking one player to start a team with, he would probably be it over Williams and Ruth and Bonds.Report

    • Chris in reply to Mike Schilling says:

      What about Willie Mays Hayes?Report

    • Ken S in reply to Mike Schilling says:

      Branch Rickey. Not only because of Jackie Robinson (though that is reason enough), but Rickey also invented the farm system.Report

  8. Patrick says:

    You couldn’t think of a pitcher that felt integral to this history of the game?

    Take Curt out, put him in.

    I agree with Jackie and Babe. I like Mike’s note about Spalding.Report

  9. Mike Schilling says:

    And one nitpick about Bonds: he couldn’t throw that well. He made up for a weak arm by getting to the ball and getting his throw off quickly. Which, together with his speed and judgement of fly balls, was enough to make him a top-notch left fielder (through 1998, +13 dWAR and 8 Gold Gloves.) But when he got older and slower, he became a real defensive liability. I don’t blame the Giant for not resigning him in 2008, because he was no longer capable of playing in the field, but the fact that none of the 14 AL teams signed him as DH after he’d gone .276/.480/.565 with 28 HRs stinks of collusion.Report

    • Kazzy in reply to Mike Schilling says:

      Thanks, @mike-schilling . Bonds’ unceremonious departure from the game was absurd. Not because he necessarily deserved a ceremony. But because he would have made damn near any AL team better at the DH spot.Report

  10. zic says:

    Sort of off topic but: I think my sweetie’s mom may be having a late-in-life romance with a player who probably wouldn’t adorn the Mt. Rushmore of baseball, but might be carved into the mountain honoring baseball broadcasters. They live in the same retirement community. It’ sweet.Report

  11. Slade the Leveller says:

    A couple of names that deserve consideration only because they were the first, or at least “first”: Ron Blomberg, the first player to be that abomination known as the DH, and Dennis Eckersley as the first true closer, the advent of which has made late inning baseball about as exciting to watch as the last couple of minutes in a basketball game. On 2nd thought, perhaps they belong on the Wall of Shame.

    Fun fact about Cap Anson, @mike-schilling : He is still the all-time Cubs RBI leader. He played his last major league game in 1897, which just goes to show you how horrific the Chicago National League ball club truly has been for the last century and a quarter.Report

    • Mike Schilling in reply to Slade the Leveller says:

      Anson played for the Cubs for 22 years; it’s not that surprising he’d lead in some of the counting stats. And 1880 RBIs for one team is not bad. It would make him 12th lifetime. (Baseball-reference has him 3rd lifetime, because it includes his five years in the NA.)

      How about Andy Messersmith, first man to play out his reserve clause year and become a free agent?Report

      • Slade the Leveller in reply to Mike Schilling says:

        Along with Dave McNally.

        In The Lords of the Realm it was reported that once the reserve clause was wiped out by the courts, Charlie Finley advocated for making all major leaguers free agents. He knew this would drive down salaries, but his fellow owners couldn’t let go of the idea of their “investment” in players developed in the minor leagues. As a result, Adam Dunn, a lifetime .240 hitter, and noted strike out king, is making $15,000,000 this year. Blech.Report

  12. Susan says:

    America’s Passtime, not Past Time.Report