Giving It All Away

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Burt Likko

Pseudonymous Portlander. Homebrewer. Atheist. Recovering Republican. Recovering Catholic. Recovering divorcé. Editor-in-Chief Emeritus of Ordinary Times. Relapsed Lawyer, admitted to practice law (under his real name) in California and Oregon. On Twitter, to his frequent regret, at @burtlikko. House Likko's Words: Scite Verum. Colite Iusticia. Vivere Con Gaudium.

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31 Responses

  1. Avatar Pierre Corneille
    Ignored
    says:

    If you don’t mind me asking, why do you give multiple choice exams to grad students? And, perhaps a related question, in what subjects are these students grad students (MBA? Humanities? Social Sciences?….I had thought these were MBA’s, but I forget).

    I ask because in my grad programs (history, different schools for the MA and PHD), multiple choice exams, and mostly any type of exam, were never given. The exceptions were the qualifying exams or “practice” qualifying exams we did for some classes.Report

    • Avatar Burt Likko in reply to Pierre Corneille
      Ignored
      says:

      I do it to test the students’ abilities to apply the information the class is supposed to convey in ways that do not require me to also evaluate their composition skills, which experience has demonstrates are nauseatingly deficient. Although I’m not teaching composition, their writing skills are so poor, so often, that I simply cannot get past what appear to be random strings of words, sometimes lacking important components of communication. Like verbs.

      So I do it to give them a chance of demonstrating that they know the material without having to express themselves in writing, because if the only way they could get a grade was a paper, they’d all fail. (Actually, in this class, one student turned in a very good paper. But that’s one out of eight.)Report

      • Avatar Pierre Corneille in reply to Burt Likko
        Ignored
        says:

        Yeah….teaching can be disheartening in that way. If I ever teach again (and if I do, it will almost definitely NOT be at the grad level), I will probably introduce an objective component to evaluation (if not multiple choice, then at least short answer), in part because of the discouraging absence of writing skills. (I’ve also found, when I did teach, that writing skills weren’t always the issue. Sometimes students just don’t spend enough time learning facts. Alex Knapp, a long time ago, had a post on the importance of learning actual facts, and I largely with this.)Report

  2. Avatar Damon
    Ignored
    says:

    Oh dear jeebus! Like that question was hard. How old are these grad students?Report

  3. Avatar Stephen M. Stillman
    Ignored
    says:

    Not surpising to me at all. Since you gave the context of employment law in the question, the diagnosis for anyone who got the item wrong has to be: IQ too low to become a lawyer. It’s stuff like this that drove me out of professoring.Report

  4. Avatar Pierre Corneille
    Ignored
    says:

    I realize you gave the answers ahead of time, and a little bit of deductive reasoning ought to lead one to the right answer….

    Still, I confess that although I chose B (it is the correct answer, right?), I was a little tripped up because the term “favored group” might to a layperson be interpreted to mean “favored [minority] group.” Not that that’s what you meant or that anti-discrimination law actually favors minority groups more than other groups. In fact, after reflection, I take you to mean “favored” in the sense of “favorable to people who already have unfair advantages.”

    But I can see that being a source of confusion.Report

    • Avatar Burt Likko in reply to Pierre Corneille
      Ignored
      says:

      The correct answer is indeed “B.”

      Yes, usually, the favored group is a majority group. White, male, under-40, Christian, heterosexual and cisgendered, natural-born American. Sometimes, though, there can be “reverse discrimination” or discrimination by one minority group against another. So what matters is that one group, any group, is favored over another.

      Still, I don’t think this is a particularly hard question. And I really don’t understand why half my answers are “D,” an answer that has nothing whatsoever to do with law.Report

    • Avatar Burt Likko in reply to Pierre Corneille
      Ignored
      says:

      Oh, and I very much appreciate and thank you for the suggestion about why the correct answer seems to elude my students. It can be hard for a subject matter expert to see how a concept might be complicated to someone who does not work with it every day.Report

      • Avatar Pierre Corneille in reply to Burt Likko
        Ignored
        says:

        Thanks, Burt.

        I had a high school history teacher once who gave multiple choice tests, but allowed us to make a case after the fact that an “incorrect” answer was actually right. I remember one question was something like “John Winthrop headed the Mass. Bay colony unchallenged for 30 years [or whatever],” and he kindly and graciously accepted my refutation that there was one time where he was relegated to deputy governor. (I had actually known about that tidbit…..I was that much of a nerd–and an annoying one–in high school.)Report

    • Avatar Brandon Berg in reply to Pierre Corneille
      Ignored
      says:

      I assume it meant favored by the person making the decision.Report

  5. Avatar dhex
    Ignored
    says:

    “…these are graduate students!”

    sometimes a question is also an answer.

    [/bangs gong]Report

  6. Avatar Rod
    Ignored
    says:

    That’s pathetic. (And keep in mind what I do for a living.)Report

  7. Avatar Stillwater
    Ignored
    says:

    Some people are just bad multiple choice test takers, flat out. They over think the concepts, look too hard for the “trick” part, forget that if you’re stumped choosing (a) is correct 92% of the time, that sort of thing.

    But this is horrifying.Report

    • Avatar Pierre Corneille in reply to Stillwater
      Ignored
      says:

      I remember a true-false test I had on a US government class exam in 1994 that went something like this:

      With two women on the Supreme Court and one black person, the US Supreme Court is now perfectly representative of the US population.

      This is a paraphrase, but as I remember it, there really was something like “perfectly” in there to suggest absolute representativeness.

      Even though that ridiculously easy question is false and even though I knew at the time it was false, I had much difficulty answering it. I spent too much time rationalizing something like this (although this too is a paraphrase):

      “well, a 9-member court can never be ‘perfectly’ representative of the population, so maybe we need to think about how perfectly it can ever represent people. And there are two women now, and given the nominating process and the fact that there are fewer women lawyers [or so I believed] than male lawyers, maybe we need to consider the nomination process and the fact, for example, that blacks are about 10% of the population and Thomas is 1/9 of the court members and even he was nominated by a Republican and not a bleeding heart Democrat, and also, if Scalia is Italian and he can serve as a proxy for other immigrants, ergo….”Report

  8. Avatar Russell Saunders
    Ignored
    says:

    I took a moment to choose between “B” and “C.” Then I reread the question, focused on the words In the context of employment law and went with “B.”

    I assume you will mail my JD to me?Report

  9. Avatar James K
    Ignored
    says:

    Wow, that’s … I don’t even know what to say to that. Honestly, the best explanation I can come up with is that your students are trolling you. That doesn’t seem very likely, but I’m drawing a blank otherwise. They didn’t just get it wrong, but in such a bizarrely backwards way.Report

  10. Avatar Pinky
    Ignored
    says:

    Was this near the end of the test maybe? Too many questions, and they were filling in the last twenty answers in the final minute? Either that, or this wasn’t a grad school at all, but a grade school that you’re teaching a masters-level class at. Those are my two possible explanations.Report

  11. Avatar Stephen M. Stillman
    Ignored
    says:

    Better not fail anybody that got that question wrong. They might sue you for discrimination on the basis of disability- specifically learning disability.Report

  12. Avatar Patrick
    Ignored
    says:

    Okay, Burt, I have a challenge for you.

    The new format has a survey capability, IIRC. You need to put your exam up here at the League and see how we all do. I mean, come **on**.Report

  13. Avatar Vikram Bath
    Ignored
    says:

    From the original post:
    The last time I gave this test, the average score was 74.8 out of 100 with a standard deviation of .978.

    The standard deviation was under a point? So all students got almost identical grades?Report

  14. Avatar Burt Likko
    Ignored
    says:

    Yes, that is correct. This time, there was a variance closer to what one would have expected.Report

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