Believe It or Not


One man. Two boys. Twelve kids.

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13 Responses

  1. Mike Schilling says:

    I’d guess that they’re generalizing from their experience with previous clients (as opposed to their own situations.) And since they’re trying to be helpful, I’d cut them some slack.Report

    • Kazzy in reply to Mike Schilling says:

      It’s possible. What makes it really stand out is that despite me saying, “Well, my wife works, so it needs to be an evening,” they make the same mistake again. So, yea, it might be their canned approach to making appointments. But it is a poor one.

      This is probably somewhat indicative of the area I live in and is among the reasons we are looking to get out. We do not want to be in a place where the expectation is that women stay home with the children.Report

      • Kim in reply to Kazzy says:

        many women work part time when they have small children. Not that assuming this is a good thing, it’s very likely to offend.Report

      • Kazzy in reply to Kazzy says:

        Sure. And some women stay home. I respect whatever choice a woman makes and will defer to her judgement about what is best for her and her family. I’m sure there are families where the women stay home with the children and handle appointments accordingly. And power to them. Ours is not one. And the assumption of such is annoying. And insulting and aggravating to my wife, who does struggle with her decision and doesn’t need people contributing to her second-guessing it (which she does get explicitly from some people, mind you).Report

  2. zic says:

    Stuff like this drives me crazy, Kazzy.

    Women can be the worst offenders when it comes to other women and the complexities of life. But what you’re hearing is probably more subtle: their experience is that when someone needs to take time off from work to deal with stuff, it’s her. It’s part of the Mommy Track.Report

    • Kazzy in reply to zic says:

      The strange thing is, on these and most other tasks, I am the primary point of contact for our family (my wife hates talking to people on the phone so those duties typically fall to me). It is okay for me to say, “I’ll check with my wife about scheduling and get back to you.” It is also okay for me to say, “I’m going to schedule a time with you without checking with my wife.” It is okay for me to proceed in whatever manner my wife and I agree is the way we want to proceed. Sometimes that means me running the show, sometimes her, sometimes a collaborative effort. What isn’t okay is for someone else to to say to me, “Make sure you check with your wife.” Nope. Sorry. Not your concern. And I’d be similarly bothered if the mechanic or anyone else said to her, “Don’t you want to talk to your husband first?” Nope. If I needed to be involved in the process, we would secure that. If I ain’t involved, assume her and I are fine with that.

      Is this really that difficult? Oi…Report

      • zic in reply to Kazzy says:

        Indeed. Oi.

        It’s part and parcel of that healthy dose of feminism I encourage men to grasp hold of for their own benefit.

        I rejoice you’re out here, doing your share of the heavy lifting, @kazzy.Report

      • Kazzy in reply to Kazzy says:

        And it is great you point that out.

        While I won’t say that the harm done to men by feminism is on par with the harm done to women*, it is important to note when sexism is universally harmful. Not only does this mindset harm Zazzy for all the reasons mentioned, but it also serves to diminish my own capability.

        * Of course, there are also ways that men benefit from sexism, namely by excluding women from certain situations and reserving those benefits for themselves.Report

      • zic in reply to Kazzy says:

        @kazzy, when I say men should embrace feminism, I mean that they should embrace the things traditionally feminine and unmanly that make lives better. Cooking, child care, cleaning, taking your kids to the restroom while out in a public place.

        You and Will Truman are heros in my book; you see that you have the right to stay home and meet with the realtor or care for the newborn every bit as much as your wives have the right to have high-powered careers.

        So many of the things considered womanly are wonderful, and the gender of the person embracing that thing is of absolutely no matter. Mostly, this is a thing that men put on themselves; but when women reinforce it (as these professionals did) it’s also sad.Report

      • Kazzy in reply to Kazzy says:

        Oh, yes yes indeed…

        And I should go back and edit that last comment. I did not mean to speak of the harm done by feminism; I meant the harm done by sexism. Eash!

        I tend not to see things as being the man’s duty or the woman’s duty. There are things that need to be done and two people to do them and we need to find a way for the two of us to get the things that need doing done. Sometimes, Zazzy will fall back on stereotypes and say, “Well, of course the yardwork is your job.” And I’ll say, “Oh, so that means I don’t have to cook any more*? You’ll take that over?” And she realizes that binding ourselves by traditional gender norms ultimately harms us both.

        I also make clear that if and when I ask her to perform a certain task, it is not because of her gender. “Oh, you want me to give him a bath because that’s women’s work?” “No, I want you to give him a bath because I’m elbow deep in the sink trying to unclog a drain. I’d be happy to swap jobs with you.” “Off to the bath!”

        However, I love the way you frame it. These aren’t simply chores to be done. There is much wonder and enjoyment that can be derived from these tasks and activities. For everyone.Report

  3. Kim says:

    What were these professionals doing?
    I’d be tempted to read it as “we can get more done if the man isn’t there” (in terms of putting jingle in their pockets).Report

    • Kazzy in reply to Kim says:

      One was a realtor to sell the house. The other was repairing a TV and scheduling time to pick it up and drop it off. I don’t imagine either of those are seen as tasks that are done more efficiently without a man in the picture.Report

      • Kim in reply to Kazzy says:

        The first one depends highly on whether you know what a decent price is, already, and know how much you can afford to lose on the investment (or, if not lose, at least what price you can accept).

        Most folks don’t know that, and thus are likely to sign up with whichever realtor will tell them their house is worth the most.Report