I feel like I should say something but I don’t know what to say jukebox and open thread


Jaybird is Birdmojo on Xbox Live and Jaybirdmojo on Playstation's network. He's been playing consoles since the Atari 2600 and it was Zork that taught him how to touch-type. If you've got a song for Wednesday, a commercial for Saturday, a recommendation for Tuesday, an essay for Monday, or, heck, just a handful a questions, fire off an email to AskJaybird-at-gmail.com

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33 Responses

  1. Tod Kelly says:


    All I remembered about mine was that it was universally hated here. So much so I have never reread it; the outcry I remember made me assume I’d gone way on on a limb with a flame-thrower.

    Funny, it seems pretty tame a year later.Report

    • Jaybird in reply to Tod Kelly says:

      I’m sorry I didn’t comment on it then. It doesn’t read as particularly inflammatory to me (but I may not be the yardstick you want to use).Report

    • James H. in reply to Tod Kelly says:

      Tod, I just clicked over to your post to see what made it so horrible. Nothing, it was well written and thoughtful as I’d expect. But irony of ironies, given the contrtemps following my latest nudging of yto see who your first critic was and how that argument went down.Report

      • Stillwater in reply to James H. says:

        On the previous thread Jaybird thought there was more telling than showing about TVD, but in the linked thread on RTod’s post, TVD is actualrealtrue showing. I mean, not only is his trollery on display, he accuses Tod of misrepresenting views he previously expressed to Tod, which Tod calls him on and which he then denies, dodges, ducks. And we’re talking about Tod here.

        I don’t mean for this to start a flame war – least of all because it puts RTod in the center of things – but for anyone wondering what the dispute is about, you’re right James. It’s easy to see what made the thread – and Tod’s reaction – so horrible.Report

    • Mike Schilling in reply to Tod Kelly says:

      I’m just disappointed it’s not about the Three Musketeers sequel.Report

  2. Mike Dwyer says:

    On 9/11 I was working on an archaeological site with 120 kids visiting on us on a field trip. We heard about the first crash via telephone and then the second. We had to keep it together until the kids left because we didn’t want to scare them. When I got home at noon I discovered the full extent of the attacks. Then I went in to my ‘real’ job and because all plane travel was grounded we had no work to do. So we watched coverage on TV and tried to figure out just what the hell it all meant.

    Eleven years I’m still trying to figure it out…Report

    • Kazzy in reply to Mike Dwyer says:

      Why does it have to have meant something?Report

      • Jaybird in reply to Kazzy says:

        Because otherwise it didn’t mean anything.Report

        • Kazzy in reply to Jaybird says:

          What does “mean” mean?Report

            • Kazzy in reply to Jaybird says:


              (By the way, if ANY conversation breaks the internet… it might be this one.)

              Ceasing obtuseness, I wonder how much our search for meaning in this instance is more about the human tendency to seek patterns in randomness and less about there being an actual-but-unattainble meaning for the events in questions.

              I’m reminded of the speech given by the Army captain or whatever towards the end of “28 Days Later”… People killing people. That is what it was before 9/11. That is what it was on 9/11. That it what it was after 9/11. That’s just what is.Report

      • Mike Dwyer in reply to Kazzy says:

        It should have meant something. It was a major moment in foreign relations. It led to the additional deaths of thousands more people after that day. Trillions of dollars spent. I guess my point is that today it all seems pointless.Report

        • Kazzy in reply to Mike Dwyer says:

          What seems pointless? 9/11 itself? Or everything that followed? I think those are very different things, largely because the primary agents are different.Report

          • Kazzy in reply to Kazzy says:

            My hunch is that 9/11 meant something very different in the Muslim world than it did here. It meant something very different to Muslim extremists and Al Quaeda than it did to Americans.

            Likewise, our response to 9/11 means something different to us than it does to those groups.Report

          • Mike Dwyer in reply to Kazzy says:

            I think 9/11 itself and our response. I don’t see the Muslim world liking us anymore or fearing us. I mean, they killed one of our ambassadors yesterday. What did we accomplish?Report

            • Kazzy in reply to Mike Dwyer says:

              I was reading “mean” in a much more abstract way. In terms of what we accomplished, I’d say not a hell of a whole lot.

              For me, the question is, what did we hope to accomplish? Even that seems hard to answer.Report

    • Stillwater in reply to Mike Dwyer says:

      I was in grad school at the time. I woke up, took a leak, started making coffee … and my daughter shouts from the next room that a plane hit the World Trade Center. Curious, I turned on the tv and watched as all the shit went down. Saw the (replay of the) second plane hit the other tower. Saw both towers go down, of course. My wife and I talked about conspiracy theories. Immediately and without hesitation. We both thought – she more than I – that there was just no way in hell hijackers could fly those planes like they did. (And then there was building 7…)

      I had lectures to review, and assignments for the students, and whatnot. I couldn’t even think about any of that, tho it was in the back of my mind. I finally wrapped my head around my own life enough to stumble into class and talk about what happened in NYC and let the kids go early. I went back home and watched the news. None of it made any sense.

      The whole effing day was a blur. Still is.Report

  3. Peter says:

    It occurred to me that 9/11 is pretty much just something in a history book to most anyone under age 18 or so. Young people probably are puzzled why so many adults are still whining about it all the time.Report

  4. BlaiseP says:

    From Galway Kinnell’s “When the Towers Fell”

    Then before me I saw, in steel letters welded
    to the steel railing posts, Whitman’s words
    written when America plunged into war with itself: City of the world!…
    Proud and passionate city — mettlesome, mad, extravagant city!

    — words of a time of illusions. And I remembered
    what he wrote after the war was over and Lincoln dead:
    I saw the debris and debris of all the dead soldiers of the war,
    But I saw they were not as was thought.
    They themselves were fully at rest — they suffer’d not,
    The living remain’d and suffer’d, the mother suffer’d,
    And the wife and the child and the musing comrade suffer’d…

    In our minds the glassy blocks
    succumb over and over into themselves,
    slam down floor by floor into themselves.
    blowing up as if in reverse, exploding
    downward and outward, billowing
    through the streets, engulfing the fleeing.
    As each tower goes down, it seems to
    concentrate into itself, to transform itself
    infinitely slowly into a black hole
    infinitesimally small: mass
    without space, where each light,
    each life, put out, lies down within us.Report

  5. Glyph says:

    I had many friends in NYC at the time, was a frequent visitor; and I was worried sick about them on that day.

    None were actually hurt, but a dear old friend of mine was in very close vicinity when the first tower came down. I can’t remember if I actually got hold of her on the phone that day, or the next; when I finally did, she told me of the moment they realized the tower was coming down, of turning and running as fast as she could, fleeing with all her strength; of the horrific indescribable *shriek* that the tower made as it came down, and the clouds of choking dust overtaking her as she ran; of sitting in a diner’s counter, unsure how she got there, with other dazed shellshocked people; of the diner’s owner’s hand shaking, shaking, spilling on the counter, as he poured cups of water for all.

    I was really, really mad about 9/11, for a long long time.

    No, not mad. I was beyond furious, whenever I thought about it, or saw or heard something about it.

    I simply could not believe or accept that someone could have done this thing – that people just leaving their homes and going about their business were just snuffed out, like they meant nothing at all.

    For a long time I could only watch tiny snippets of the tributes, of the documentaries, of footage of the jumpers (oh, footage of the jumpers was the absolute worst), before I would feel just this completely uncontrollable rage rising in me. I would turn them all off. I couldn’t see straight, just blind with tears and anger, anger, anger.

    I’m not sure when that feeling finally faded away for me.

    It was years, I know that.

    I’m very glad that feeling’s gone.

    But I still didn’t go visit the area or ‘Ground Zero’ when I was in NYC a few weeks back.

    I was afraid that feeling would return, maybe.

    I imagine for those that were closer to it than I was, that feeling may never fade.Report

  6. Chris says:

    Jay, Lupe is awesome when he gets it right. Good choice.

    Did you see that he’s now threatening to leave music?Report

  7. Tod Kelly says:

    I’m suddenly realizing… Back last year and before, it seems like so many things got framed by the GOP through the lens of 9/11. Is it just me, or has that all but disappeared?

    If so, why is that? Is it that Bin Laden’s death has allowed us to move on? Is it the desire to focus on nothing but the economy these days? Is it that Obama is essentially doing the same things Bush did, and the p**sy card no longer works on liberals on the war on terror?

    I don’t know, but I’m suddenly realizing that 9/11 has kind of disappeared from the political day-to-day, and I didn’t even notice it leaving.Report

    • Jaybird in reply to Tod Kelly says:

      I think the culmination was the 10th Anniversary and then, internet be praised, our attention spans said “let’s change the goddamn topic”.

      When Osama was finally shot in the damn head and fed to fish, even the worst of the neocons didn’t want to talk about 9/11 because doing so would be aid and comfort to the enemy and, meanwhile, the rest of us were ready to stop talking about it at the same time.

      That’s my theory.

      I suspect that, henceforth, we’ll only really devote a lot of thought to 9/11 on the anniversaries that are “big” ones.

      All that to say: Yeah, you’re right. I think that this means that whomever is president can (finally) pull out of Afghanistan and call it “Peace with Honor” or whatever they’re inclined to call it.Report

    • Tom Van Dyke in reply to Tod Kelly says:

      Bin Laden’s eschatology died in Iraq, not in Pakistan.Report

  8. Anne says:

    I was in my first year of grad school. Did not have class that day was home out in Queens close to LaGuardia. Always, always listened to the news in the morning I did not that day. My sister called me hysterical telling me a plane crashed into the World Trade Center. I turn on the TV in time to see the second plane. Lost TV reception, antennas were on the towers. Then my dad calls still on my cell with my sister I kept trying to get them to tell me what was going on. Decided to go downstairs to my landlords (they had cable). Mr. Boiardi looked at me like I was insane when I told him. We sat and watched the towers fall.

    Russell’s post from last year really spoke to me. I could have written the last two sentences of that post “However, what I always remember most of all is how full New York City was, in the days and weeks after the attacks, of decency and compassion and sacrifice. Which is why I will always consider it in some way my home, no matter where I live. Why I will always love it more than any other place on earth.”

    I still have a very hard time seeing anything connected with that day.Report