So You Say You Want to Make a Meatloaf?


One man. Two boys. Twelve kids.

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231 Responses

  1. Patrick Cahalan says:

    All I had to do was read the ingredients list.


    No bacon?Report

    • Kazzy in reply to Patrick Cahalan says:

      I’ve tried three approaches to incorporating bacon:
      1.) One was to grind the bacon into the meat. This didn’t work. Bacon doesn’t grind. Not raw anyway. It was stringy and doesn’t cook crisp when mixed.
      2.) I’ve tried to drape bacon over and around it. This imparts a solid bacony flavor but makes it hard to get a good crust on it, which I think is important.
      3.) I’ve tried to cook the bacon first and then break it into the mix. The problem is, I tend to just eat the bacon.

      Call me crazy, but as much as I love bacon, I don’t know that it necessarily augments every dish. This is one of those times.Report

      • Patrick Cahalan in reply to Kazzy says:

        Ah, I see.

        Yes, #1 and #3 are out.

        I can see the objection to #2 on the basis of crust.

        My solution? Cook it the #2 way, eat one slice with mashed potatoes, and save the rest of the meatloaf for frying, which is the proper way to eat meatloaf anyway (and imparts said crustiness).Report

  2. Burt Likko says:

    Dude, you were doing great until you got to this:

    8.Cut remaining meatloaf into thin slices, fry in butter until browned, and make a sandwich using Wonder bread and ketchup.

    Negative. I repeat, negative on number eight.

    8.Cut remaining meatloaf into thin slices, fry in butter until browned, and make a sandwich using Wonder bread and ketchup. Fry in a small amount of well-heated oil and cajun blackening seasonings, and serve atop garlic mashed potatoes.

    Copy back, please.Report

    • Kazzy in reply to Burt Likko says:

      It is entirely possible that is a better method. But what New York-based Italian has those laying around? *I* do… but I’m not a typical New York-based Italian.

      And I thought it went without saying that garlic mashed potatoes were the perfect compliment to meatloaf. But thank you for pointing that out.Report

    • dexter in reply to Burt Likko says:

      I would like to know what a Californian thinks “Cajun blackening seasonings” are.Report

      • Kazzy in reply to dexter says:

        SHOTS FIRED!Report

      • Kimmi in reply to dexter says:

        me too… I’m familiar with the Holy Trinity, and roux… but what the hell does a Californian mean by that???Report

      • BlaiseP in reply to dexter says:

        I’ve been told by my betters that blackening isn’t really Cajun.Report

        • Kimmi in reply to BlaiseP says:

          a nearly-black roux is certainly cajun.Report

          • dexter in reply to Kimmi says:

            My wife says she makes rue very dark but never black. The first people around here heard about blackened food was Paul Prudhomme and his blackened redfish.Report

          • BlaiseP in reply to Kimmi says:

            I’ve seen roux of various hues, but only in NOLA did I see a black roux. Now my experience is by no means any guide to these things, for I was taught to make roux by a woman of colour, from the Creole tradition, but if it got darker than shoe leather, especially if it got black spots in it, I was taught to throw it out and wash the cast iron within an inch of its life.

            Furthermore, I was taught to make roux on butter and all-purpose flour in cast iron, which does not lend itself to a terribly dark roux.

            I have seen Paul Prudhomme make roux and do not approve of either his high heat or his whisk. Roux is made with a spatula and is done slowly. I cannot abide bitter roux.Report

        • Chris in reply to BlaiseP says:

          Blackened food was always called creole when I was a kid. The old joke went something like this: “If a cajun chef burns her food, she says, ‘Eh, let’s start over.’ If a creole chef burns her food, she says, ‘Eh, let’s add more spice.'”Report

          • Kazzy in reply to Chris says:

            My hunch is that the confusion comes from outsiders using the terms “Cajun” and “Creole” interchangeably.Report

            • Chris in reply to Kazzy says:

              Probably. Here’s my method: ask them to say the word “baby.” If you can then imitate the way they say it, they’re cajun. If it contains phonemes you’ve never heard before, they’re creole.Report

              • dexter in reply to Chris says:

                I don’t know about phonemes, but when the mother of my children, a born and raised in New Roads cajun and whose maiden name ended with an “eau” went to Fairbanks, about half the people she talked to thought she was a New York Jew.Report

              • Kimmi in reply to dexter says:

                *blink* that’s about as weird as people thinking I’m from Britain. Or Philly.Report

      • Burt Likko in reply to dexter says:

        Cayenne pepper, onion, red pepper, black pepper, celery seed, hot and sweet paprika, garlic, parsley, thyme, savory.Report

        • Burt Likko in reply to Burt Likko says:

          I admit to ignorance of the distinction between cajun and creole.Report

          • Kimmi in reply to Burt Likko says:

            Creole’s from The City — in this case Nawlins
            Cajun’s country cookin, from the bayousReport

            • BlaiseP in reply to Kimmi says:

              There are varying definitions on this front. As an honorary Cajun, dubbed into that fraternity by Terry Angelle (of blessed memory) at Whiskey River Landing, I have been told the essential difference between Cajun and Creole is the time of their arrival. The first wave of acadien arrived from Nova Scotia. The second wave, which corresponds to your NOLA definition, came from Haiti, refugees from Toussaint L’Ouverture’s slave revolt. It was the second wave which build the “French” Quarter, which is nothing of the sort.

              The simplest of all distinctions between these cultures is musical. The Cajun music is almost all in waltz time, 3/4 or in two-step. Fiddle music. Creole culture gives us Zydeco: Clifton Chenier. If it’s got a rub-board, c’est zodeco. Both musical traditions honour each other and are always welcome in each other’s establishments, but they are separate.Report

              • Kimmi in reply to BlaiseP says:

                is the first wave cajun or creole?
                I bow to your wisdom.Report

              • BlaiseP in reply to Kimmi says:

                The first wave is acadien. And do not bow before my wisdom in these things. I was a guest among them and they took me in, a lonely travelling man whose African French was a perpetual source of embarrassment in the company of modern Frenchmen. I cannot sufficiently express my gratitude to the Cajun and Creole people I met and cannot wait to move down to New Orleans, starting on the 17th.Report

              • Chris in reply to BlaiseP says:

                The acadiens are cajun. In fact, that’s pretty much what cajun is. The creole people came from all over the new world, and there’s spanish as well as french in their anscestry.Report

              • BlaiseP in reply to Chris says:

                Well, yes. Acadien is Cajun. Creole is fundamentally Caribbean. But the first Creole culture was white, the Haitian aristocracy in exile.Report

              • dexter in reply to BlaiseP says:

                My wife the dance instructor says a good definition of zydeco is the cajun waltz with happy feet.Report

    • MikeSchilling in reply to Burt Likko says:

      Seriously, Wonder Bread and ketchup? You’ve just destroyed centuries of New Yorkers pretending to be more sophisticated than the rubes.Report

    • Mike Dwyer in reply to Burt Likko says:


      I will one-up you. Around here we just eat the meatloaf cold on some WonderBread (or Butternut). Now that is a quality breakfast.Report

  3. b-psycho says:

    I like to incorporate a lil pork into mine, whether its some sausage or by wrapping it in bacon.Report

    • Kazzy in reply to b-psycho says:

      See above for a conversation about bacon. You can certainly play with the meat mixture… I’ve used ground pork and veal as well in conjunction with beef. My trouble with the bacon is noted: no crispy crust. If you have a remedy for this, please share!Report

      • b-psycho in reply to Kazzy says:

        Depends on your definition of “crust” I suppose. For the bacon one the overhead broiler has been sufficient, though I tend more towards adding sausage.

        I’ve done one where the sausage incorporated was chorizo before. Gotta be a good kind though, not that crap in the tube that just turns to undifferentiated grease. Meat department at a local grocery here makes a good one, plenty meaty and spiced without dominating.Report

  4. Tod Kelly says:

    Wonder bread?


    • Kazzy in reply to Tod Kelly says:

      First off, this is basically the way I ate it growing up.

      More importantly, while I am generally fine to leave Wonder Bread to the unwashed masses, somehow it works perfectly with greasy, buttery fried meatloaf. The goal is to get it such that the bread is basically see through and functions solely to keep your hands from getting gunked up.Report

      • Dave Ruddell in reply to Kazzy says:

        It’s also really the only thing for peanut butter sandwiches; I don’t why. Usually I hate that crap, but it’s just right for the PB (no J).Report

      • Patrick Cahalan in reply to Kazzy says:

        Okay, the *right* way to make the meatloaf sandwich is to fry the meatloaf, then put it on two slices of sourdough and fry the sourdough. No cheese, though. That’s crazy-talk.Report

        • Kazzy in reply to Patrick Cahalan says:

          First off, who said ANYTHING about cheese? Blasphemy.

          And, more to the point, the sandwich is typically a morning-after and/or hangover meal. It doesn’t necessarily get the forethought needed to ensure fresh sourdough. But, yes, if you want to class it up, that sounds like a fine way to go.Report

        • Sourdough. Now you’re talking.

          To me, once it’s in my mouth Wonder Bread feels like someone covered my meat and veggies in a vaguely-bread flavored paste.Report

    • Glyph in reply to Tod Kelly says:

      The Official Bread Of The League! 😉Report

      • Kazzy in reply to Glyph says:

        (I’m secretly curious how long my elitist reference to Wonder Bread can stand unchallenged… a few more minutes and I might declare the LoOG as a whole far more bourgee that we realized…)Report

        • b-psycho in reply to Kazzy says:

          When I do get plain white bread (which is rare — it doesn’t seem to last long, always end up having to throw out the last bit) it’s the cheap ass store brand. If you’re gonna slum it, why pay more?Report

          • Kazzy in reply to b-psycho says:

            I don’t see Wonder Bread so much as slumming it as a very limited bread. There are a handful of things that Wonder Bread is great for. But it doesn’t have the taste or versatility of most other breads. As far as basic white breads go, it is the best. I think there is a noticeable difference between Wonder Bread and generic white bread.

            Also, my hometown had a Wonder Bread store in it. Was this not common?!?!?!Report

            • b-psycho in reply to Kazzy says:

              I’ll admit to a curiosity at what particular bread was used at my encounters with the burnt ends sandwich while in Kansas City. Was just plain white bread visually but seemed to break down from its starch to sweetness quicker than I can recall possible.Report

            • b-psycho in reply to Kazzy says:

              Both where I grew up and where I lived down south for a few years had Wonder Bread stores. Hell, high school years I was walking distance from a Wonder Bread factory.Report

              • Kazzy in reply to b-psycho says:

                Phew… I thought I might have been crazy.

                The Wonder Bread store was wonderful. It closed when I was still young, but if memory serves, it literally was just rows and rows of Wonder Bread.Report

          • Kazzy in reply to Burt Likko says:

            Not sure I follow…

            I’m referring to my comment that I normally leave Wonder Bread to the unwashed masses which, if seriously stated and consequently deconstructed, is a horribly offensive statement.Report

            • Bob2 in reply to Kazzy says:

              “Once a year, put aside nutritional admonitions against white bread and mayonnaise and indulge in the classic, inimitable tomato sandwich. The bread must be spongy and fine-grained. The mayo must be Hellmann’s regular. The tomato must border overripe. Add only salt and pepper.

              Julia Child, in a 2002 interview with Larry King, confessed her adoration for this exact combination, specifying Wonder Bread. King dubbed it the Julia Child Tomato Sandwich.”Report

              • Kazzy in reply to Bob2 says:

                If you’re eating white bread, it SHOULD be Wonder Bread.

                I steer clear of Wonder/white bread for two main reasons:
                – nutrition
                – versatility

                As I’ve said, Wonder/white bread is *PERFECT* for some things. But there are a great number of applications for which it is sub-ideal, and these are the applications most common at least in my household (sandwiches, toast). I take no moral, class, or cultural stand on the matter… I simply think, in a vacuum, most other breads are tastier. Many folks do take such stands though and should be admonished for unnecessary food snobbery (which is distinct from necessary food snobbery, would is entirely justified).Report

            • Burt Likko in reply to Kazzy says:

              Mea culpa. I thought you were referring to criticsm of Wonder Bread itself. Tod was on that pretty hard, pretty fast. (And I’m not contradicting him.)Report

        • Glyph in reply to Kazzy says:

          I was going a different direction with the joke, given how many discussions we’ve had around here of late about the generally ah…rather ‘pale’ nature of the LoOG’s reader/writer demographics.Report

          • Kazzy in reply to Glyph says:

            Well played. Particularly ironic because there are also racial stereotypes about black folks and Wonder/white bread.Report

            • Glyph in reply to Kazzy says:

              Are there? I had no idea. Did you ever see Talladega Nights? Wonder Bread was Ricky Bobby’s sponsor, he had huge logos all over his car and clothes. Where I’m from, calling someone ‘Wonder Bread’ is a reference to how white they are.

              AND now my joke – not that great to begin with – is well and truly dead.

              I like the fact that the food posts you and Sam have done both have a semi-confrontational tone to them.

              I think when it comes to food, that’s when the Gentlemanly gloves need to come off.Report

              • Kazzy in reply to Glyph says:

                I should clarify with regards to the racial element of Wonder/white bread.

                Working in crunchy independent schools, we are often at the forefront of food movements. Twice I’ve had black colleagues comment on the discomfort they feel when white educators start waxing in about the evils of Wonder/white bread, since such bread is more often than not what black kids are growing up and eating. This is likely a blend of race, culture, and class, but I’ve only heard the discomfort from black folks.

                In a nutshell, it is one thing to talk about the health benefits of whole grains over processed and bleached flours. It is quite another to say that parents who give their kids Wonder Bread should be looked at for abuse (no joke).

                “Racial stereotypes” was the wrong term. My apologies. But, more broadly, there are racial, cultural, and class elements to many food debates/snobbery, with Wonder Bread becoming an odd symbol for some of the divides that exist.

                There is more to it that I can’t quite articulate, unfortunately.

                To your other points, folks ought to be confrontational with their recipes. Come hard or not at all!Report

              • Kimmi in reply to Kazzy says:

                Dammit. What’s Kain’s e-mail again? (or Jay’s, since he’s so kind as to post my random natterings…) Now I’ve got to do a post on Jamaican Blue Mountain and Wonder Bread….Report

              • Jaybird in reply to Kimmi says:

                Sigh. It’s all over my webpage.Report

        • Artor in reply to Kazzy says:

          I always wondered why they call that shit bread. I like the stuff my mom called “weeds & sticks” bread. Or a good sharp sourdough. Marbled rye makes good sammiches too.Report

    • Plinko in reply to Tod Kelly says:

      Wonder bread is for eating with barbecue, you uncouth Yankee.Report

  5. Sam says:

    1. I had been planning my own post on this topic. So, grumble.

    2. Re: your recipe – wrong.Report

    • Kazzy in reply to Sam says:

      Bring. It. On.

      I see no reason we can’t have dueling meatloafs. Or, better yet, a meatloaf symposium!Report

      • Sam in reply to Kazzy says:

        1. 2 lbs ground beef (85-15 sounds good)
        2. 1 lb hot ground italian sausage (open up some casings if you can’t find the real deal)
        3. 1 cup italian bread crumbs
        4. a heaping portion of Worcestershire sauce (a half-cup perhaps?)
        5. salt, pepper, other spices
        6. An egg.
        7. Optional (because I have kids and a wife that don’t eat them): onions

        Mix thoroughly, shape, cook for an hour and a half (ish) at 350-375.

        Really want to show off? My mother used to put hard-boiled eggs (peeled, obviously) into the meatloaf before cooking, so that when cutting it up, you’d get slices of hard-boiled egg soaked in meat juices.Report

  6. b-psycho says:

    Re-reading that recipe…why the milk?Report

    • Kazzy in reply to b-psycho says:

      Moisture purposes.Report

      • b-psycho in reply to Kazzy says:

        Um…how lean is the meat you’re using? I’ve never used milk and never had an issue with moisture.Report

        • Kazzy in reply to b-psycho says:

          It depends, especially if I’m grinding my own. It’s never really a lot of milk and may be wholly unnecessary but… I’ve never had a dry meatloaf using it and damned if I’m about to risk that now.Report

          • b-psycho in reply to Kazzy says:

            It depends, especially if I’m grinding my own.

            …I hate you so much right now. I is jealous.Report

            • Kazzy in reply to b-psycho says:

              Oh, it is not hard at all, brother!

              If you’ve got the default KitchenAid stand mixer, you can get a workable meat grinding attachment. Mine was a hand-me-down, so I can’t speak much to cost, but I think most of the add-ons are between $100-200… which is to say more than they ought to be but still worth the price. The money I save on ground chicken alone is worth it…Report

              • Kazzy in reply to Kazzy says:

                Holy Jeebus, I was way off!


                $50 on sale! That is the plastic one, which is what I have. Over the years, mine got a small crack which occasionally will leak out juices. It appears there is a more expensive metal one. But if you care for it (mine was rescued from the basement, where the crack presumably developed), plastic should serve you. Unless you are skeevy about plastic.Report

              • b-psycho in reply to Kazzy says:

                If you’ve got the default KitchenAid stand mixer

                Don’t have. And from search looks a bit rich for my blood.

                Pity. Much as I’d love to tinker with that and grind my own. Between spotting regular deals on bulk meats and having deer hunters in the fam in a region so chock full of deer I see one every other night…oh, I could do some thangs. I’ve got a small food processor type thing I use for fresh mincing garlic (the kind in the jar is never pungent enough, IMO. I want the full funk) & blending spices on occasion, that and a meat grinder would be a deadly combo.Report

              • Kimmi in reply to b-psycho says:

                Kitchenaid’s great for making ice cream too!
                And whipping up some fresh whipped cream.
                And pies, and cakes, and mashed potatoes!Report

              • Kazzy in reply to Kimmi says:

                Those would not be mashed potatoes ma’am, but whipped potatoes. And nary a whipped potato will cross this man’s plate. I like my potatoes like I like my ummm… something… WHATEVER! I like them with the skin on and CHUNKY!Report

              • Kimmi in reply to Kazzy says:

                I got me a tater masher at home! It gets used before the Kitchenaid (which is mostly for mixing salt/butter in).
                My taters are still lumpy, they are still mashed!

                (oh, and my Kitchenaid makes good bread too).Report

              • Kazzy in reply to b-psycho says:

                You may be able to find a standalone one that doesn’t involve hand cranking (I can’t imagine doing that for any large quantities of meat). The KitchenAids aren’t cheap, though I’d venture to guess you could get similar quality without the brand name for less. KA’s are what you’ll see in everyone’s kitchen, so they charge a premium, but they are far from the only game in town. They also have a wealth of attachments, some great (like the meat grinder or pasta maker) and some a bit silly (ice cream maker) but the sky is the limit.

                Anyway, should you procure the ability to grind your own meat (especially with the deer hunters in the area!), you won’t be sorry. And, use it enough and it will eventually pay for itself.Report

              • Patrick Cahalan in reply to b-psycho says:

                Check your local pawn shop.

                Kitchenaid is one thing you should have in your kitchen.Report

              • Kazzy in reply to Patrick Cahalan says:

                Maybe we should start a fund… Operation Get b-pscyho a Kitchen-Aid?Report

              • b-psycho in reply to Kazzy says:

                I take donations at my site. Unless someone wants to set up a kickstarter or somethin’.

                If I come up with a particularly nice recipe I shall share with everyone.Report

              • Plinko in reply to b-psycho says:

                Do you have a large food processor, b-psycho? I know Mark Bittman has instructions on using one to grind meat in one. Not sure if it would have good results but the man has yet to steer me wrong on anything food-related.Report

              • b-psycho in reply to Plinko says:

                The one I have isn’t big enough. Says 20 ounce on the box but that’s pushin it considering how low the blades are.Report

              • Burt Likko in reply to b-psycho says:

                Yes, they are pricey. Worth it, though. I consider my Kitchenaid mixer as valuable a tool as my Cuisinart food processor, only one step down in priority from good knives.Report

              • BlaiseP in reply to Burt Likko says:

                My girlfriend stood by at the hotel desk, appalled, as I gave away a perfectly serviceable printer/fax combo and a monitor when I checked out of the hotel in Baton Rouge. Everything has to fit in the truck. No matter how ruthlessly I have pared down my possession count, I will never be parted from my Kitchenaid mixer.

                My kitchen stuff is precious cargo. Three good copper bottom pans and a stock pot, ceramic knives, a Zojirushi rice cooker, a Dualit convection oven, Kitchenaid blender and mixer — used to have another mixer but it was a cheapie and tore up. Before I got serious about cooking for myself on the road, I put on 14 kilos from restaurant fare. Never again.Report

              • Kimmi in reply to BlaiseP says:

                eesh… ceramic knives?? you can’t even hone those things…Report

              • Burt Likko in reply to BlaiseP says:

                Roughly annually, they must be taken to a professional and entrusted with her for several days to maintain their edges. On the other hand, they slice like a dream. Sometimes you want a nice heavy knife like for meats and root vegetables, and sometimes you want a light one for herbs or breads. My ceramic santoku knife is a permanent addition to my collection.Report

  7. Plinko says:

    It’s not meatloaf with only one kind of meat in it, this is just a big spicy hamburger that you’re slicing for a sandwich!
    Classic meatloaf was equal parts ground beef, pork and veal, most folks I know now are just doing beef/pork, I mostly do beef and italian sausage. We eat it with mashed potatoes on the side and make sandwiches the next day with leftovers.

    A ketchup-based glaze is an important addition because it keeps the top of your meatloaf from being too crusty while the inside finishes cooking. The proper way to do it is to brush on once the top starts to brown (I use ketchup, worcestershire, garlic, pepper and lots of smoked paprika).Report

  8. Kazzy says:

    “It’s not meatloaf with only one kind of meat in it, this is just a big spicy hamburger that you’re slicing for a sandwich!”

    You say that like it’s a bad thing.

    I compare it more to a meatball, as I don’t like to gum up my burgers with breadcrumbs. Though meatballs also often have a meat mixture.

    Perhaps my family had a bizarre bias towards beef? Might have something to do with grandpappy being eaten alive by a pig.Report

  9. Boegiboe says:

    Milk and ground beef do not mix. That’s just nasty.

    One trick I do with hamburgers is to finely chop fresh cherries and knead them into the mix. The cherry bits release moisture during cooking while the sugar caramelizes so it’s not sweet. I don’t know if this would work in a baked loaf though. It could solve your moisture problem but make the whole thing too sweet.

    True story: My grandmother (who made the midwest style meatloaf you describe, complete with ketchup baked on top) once decided to do something new for a Sunday dinner instead of the more typical meatloaf. No ketchup on this variety; the whole thing looked like a tray full of pink, uncooked ground beef. I eyed it suspiciously. My brothers had long since learned to trust my every movement at the fine dining experiences (read: etiquette tests) at Grandma and Grandpa’s, so the bros also stared at the strange meat-mass and looked horrified. This time, however, my instincts failed them. Grandma noticed what was going on and snapped at us: “Well, what’s wrong?!” (Very little would make Grandma snap, but insulting her cooking was a surefire way to do it.) I tried to look more appetized than I was and meekly inquired “Is this steak tartare?” Shock. Smiles. Laughs all around. “It’s HAM loaf!” So, ham loaf was a thing. Who knew?Report

  10. James Hanley says:

    You lost me at the no tomato sauce point. Midwestern meatloaf contains tomato sauce, but Italian meatloaf doesn’t? We’ve just picked up where you abandoned your ethnic roots.

    I might give yours a try (minus the frying–I’m 47 and want to live to at least 50), but my kids will probably rebel, especially if I don’t put capers in it.Report

    • Kazzy in reply to James Hanley says:

      No tomato sauce. No vegetables at all, save for the onions (if you consider those to be a ‘vegetable’). As others have pointed out, this is more akin to a giant meatball, though the cooking style greatly alters both the taste and the texture.

      How old/high-minded/douchey are your kids that they’d rebel over absent capers?

      Speaking of capers, which makes me think of olives, and gives me an excuse to offer this up… I am increasingly making things “dirty”, as in using the olive brine to add a unique saltiness to dishes and drinks. The best use yet I’ve found is in a Bloody Mary. I don’t often eat capers… is their liquid similar? Or is it more oil-based?Report

      • James H. in reply to Kazzy says:

        My kids are young; they just have good taste. They also love capers on their pizza (with olives and feta). I think the liquid in capers is pretty similar to that in olives, fairly briny, but not real oily, I don’t think.

        But now I see where your tomato juice is going. I’ve never dared try a bloody Mary, as I just can’t quite fathom putting tomato juice and Worcester sauce in my precious vodka. Orange juice, sure. Milk and coffe liqueur? That’s my standard cocktail. But food in my liquor? That just sound like a terrible mistake. But maybe I’m just a Philistine.Report

        • Kazzy in reply to James H. says:

          You’ve… you’ve never had a Bloody Mary?

          Is that possible? IS THAT LEGAL?!?!

          Holy crap dude… we NEED to hang out!Report

          • Kazzy in reply to Kazzy says:

            And, don’t get me wrong, capers are good and that pizza sounds delicious. Kudos to you for providing your kids an expanded palette. I just find it funny that a younger kid would say, “F you, dad. I’m not eating meatloaf sans capers!”Report

            • James H. in reply to Kazzy says:

              Well, my kids are funny critters. They have strong opinions on things. They’ll eat the meatloaf, but I’ll get the really disapproving looks and the pathetic sighs of disappointment. And as delicious as capers are, who can blame them?Report

          • Glyph in reply to Kazzy says:

            A good Bloody is a thing of beauty. Food and liquor all in one. Restores, renews, re-vivifies – complete satisfaction. If you find a place or a bartender who makes a good one, rejoice.

            There’s a local place that uses a smoked rib as a stirrer/garnish in theirs.Report

        • BlaiseP in reply to James H. says:

          James, a Bloody Mary is part of a balanced breakfast. All God’s people know this is so. Your precious vodka goes down the savoury route quite as well as the sweet.Report

          • Kazzy in reply to BlaiseP says:

            Truth be told, I’d probably make half my drinks (morning, noon, and night) a Bloody Mary if it weren’t for A) price, B) the difficulty finding a good one, and C) BM^2, if you know what I’m talking about.

            Another tip… make a Bloody Mary with fresh tomato juice. As in what you get when you pour a bushel of tomatoes through a juicer. It will change your life. Just stir constantly and/or drink quickly to avoid separating.Report

            • Kazzy in reply to Kazzy says:

              And, of course, use jalapeno-infused vodka.Report

            • BlaiseP in reply to Kazzy says:

              Last night, I took a buttload of fresh tomatoes, cleaned and halved them, put them on my cookie sheets with two chopped yellow onions, white and black pepper, maybe a tablespoon of Tony Chachere’s, minced basil and oh maybe half a dozen cloves of chopped garlic. Roasted the whole thing at 450F for 20 minutes, caramelised it all.

              Heated up about two quarts of chicken stock.

              Threw the roasted stuff into the blender, added chicken stock, gave each blender full a minute on high. Put in back in the stock pot, reduced by perhaps a third. Et voilà, tomato soup. Ate too much of it with hot baguette and cheese, froze the rest.Report

              • Patrick Cahalan in reply to BlaiseP says:

                I want to burp just reading that.Report

              • I must demur. The word “buttload” does not belong in a recipe.Report

              • Glyph in reply to Tom Van Dyke says:

                Unless it’s Smoked Boston Butt Roast, in which case it’s unavoidable.Report

              • Tom Van Dyke in reply to Glyph says:

                Honorable Mention, G-man, with a star for firstness.Report

              • Rtod in reply to Tom Van Dyke says:

                Unless , of course, you’re throwing meat on overnight for pulled pork. Then I believe buttload is the actual measurement of pork.Report

              • Tom Van Dyke in reply to Rtod says:

                Unless , of course, you’re throwing meat on overnight for pulled pork. Then I believe buttload is the actual measurement of pork.

                Thread winner, Tod. Now let’s have that recipe.Report

              • Kazzy in reply to Rtod says:

                So far, we’re waiting on…
                …Murali’s grilled cheese
                …BlaiseP’s roux
                …Rtod’s pulled pork
                …whatever Sam wants to throw at us

                Fall’s comin’, boys. On with the comfort food.Report

              • Jaybird in reply to Rtod says:

                Jaybird’s psketti sauce.Report

              • Kazzy in reply to Rtod says:

                And, at least in my time here, I believe we owe a debt of gratitude to Jason Kuzniki, who got the food post ball rolling with his pie crust recipe. Am I remembering this correctly?Report

              • Burt Likko in reply to Rtod says:


                Yours truly has been offering food advice online since the days of the Bush Administration. See, e.g., Chicken parm and a cautionary note about custard, January 14, 2008. Formal, standalone recipes like risotto milanese also since at least 2008.

                Not to diminish or disparage the growing food and beverage culture here. I love it. Even if Murali uses partially hydrogenated cottonseed oil as his fat and browning agent for toasted cheese sandwiches, for no good reason that I can think of since it’s less healthy than real butter and doesn’t taste nearly as good. Vive l’difference.Report

              • Plinko in reply to Rtod says:

                No okra, Blaise?Report

              • BlaiseP in reply to Rtod says:

                No okra?

                Couldn’t get any. That gumbo was made in the Extended Stay in the Twin Cities area, an okra-deprived landscape. My g/f brought up the roaster from Eau Claire.

                I tend to make huge quantities of gumbo and freeze it up in two-serving containers. I’ll also make up roux and freeze it in ice cube trays, then add a cube into anything wanting rouxification.

                As such, this “land” gumbo provides a good starting point for anything I want to throw in it such as the odd shrimp or frozen crawfish, neither of which want much cooking and should not be added to an overnight cooking. I don’t add much Tony’s heat to this, nor file, both can be added later. Okra follows this rule of later addition.Report

              • Kazzy in reply to Rtod says:


                I’m going to lock you out of these comments if you mention your roux one more time without giving us the recipe.


              • BlaiseP in reply to Rtod says:

                Butter Roux:

                Melt one stick of butter in a clean cast iron frypan, slowly, slowly. Do not allow it to brown. Reserve perhaps a tablespoon of butter, cut it off and leave it in the paper.

                Add tablespoons of all purpose flour, stirring in with a spatula. It will reach an almost Play-doh consistency, though if you’re lucky, you’ll hit the sweet spot before that point and it will slump down. Once it reaches that consistency, add the remaining tablespoon of butter. The melted butter should “carry” as much flour as it can. If you see liquid butter roaming around the pan, you haven’t added enough flour.

                Sometimes a roux will go rogue. Should black spots appear in the roux, it cannot be rescued and must be thrown out. This is usually a problem with the frypan, though I am not entirely sure. A properly seasoned frypan won’t have this problem. It doesn’t happen often but it is a caution.

                Hereafter, there are two schools of thought and I have no particular preference. Cover the frypan and put the roux into a 325F oven and allow it to brown. This method is better for darker roux, much to be preferred for sea gumbo.

                But stovetop will work fine as well. Turn down the fire as low as it will go, cover the pan and stir at regular intervals, every 10 to 15 minutes will do fine.

                You will observe the bottom of the roux getting darker than the top. Using the spatula, move the roux about until it’s consistent. Darken to a desired degree.

                I am a butter man, for so I was taught. Others work with canola oil or corn oil. Roux is an article of faith.Report

              • BlaiseP in reply to Tom Van Dyke says:

                As the seasons roll around, it is the time when folks with gardens inflict their excess tomatoes, cucumbers, onions and peppers upon their unsuspecting friends. And thus it was with me.

                Before I head down to NOLA, I am currently camped out with the g/f in Eau Claire, a home with far too many things in it. I found a gigantic old pickling jar and feel I must do something with these cucumbers.Report

              • James H. in reply to BlaiseP says:

                I took a buttload of fresh tomatoes

                Great. Now I’m going to lay awake wondering just how many tomatoes Blaise can fit up his ass.Report

              • BlaiseP in reply to James H. says:

                James, you are a silly person. You should know a buttload is six seams or two hogsheads. A seam is eight bushels.Report

              • James H. in reply to BlaiseP says:

                That’s a lot of ass-tomatoes!Report

              • Glyph in reply to James H. says:

                It’s not an exact conversion.

                More of an asstimate.Report

            • Russell Saunders in reply to Kazzy says:

              I am partial to putting sriracha in my Bloody Marys now.Report

              • Kazzy in reply to Russell Saunders says:

                Russel! BRINGING THE HEAT!

                Sriracha, fresh horseradish, black/white/red pepper, jalapeno infused vodka, Tabasco or Crystal hot sauce, Old Baby (bonus points for a rimjob)… find the right proportion of these, and you’ll breath fire and love every second of it. The olive brine is key, as well, but isn’t a heat component. I am personally partial to the New Orleans style, with pickled green beans.

                To anyone in DC, I recommend this spot:

                It’s a bit hipstery (right in the heart of Columbia Heights), but there are few better Saturdays than sitting out on the patio and working with a crew of friends to build the perfect Bloody Mary. By the 3rd or 4th one, you won’t even remember where you started.Report

              • Glyph in reply to Kazzy says:

                bonus points for a rimjob

                Butt of course.Report

          • James H. in reply to BlaiseP says:

            a Bloody Mary is part of a balanced breakfast. All God’s people know this is so.

            Well, that may be the problem. God’s people cast me out long ago.Report

  11. James B Franks says:

    It’s not meatloaf without cheddar cheese mixed in.Report

  12. Mike Dwyer says:


    First off, how awesome is it that a meatloaf thread is now 98 comments deep?

    Second, my go-to recipe is almost exactly like yours except for one minor variation. I use 8 slices of white bread (Butternut) instead of the bread crumbs and soak them in the milk for about 10 minutes. Then I add everything else and mix well with my hands. The bread gives the meatloaf the perfect texture IMO.

    I also do some more gourmet variations with spinach and feta and some other items but the family keeps requesting grandma’s recipe.Report

    • Kazzy in reply to Mike Dwyer says:

      I still think half of the people commenting think we’re discussing the Meatloaf pictured above. I have to assume that explains the popularity. But, yes, pushing a meatloaf post beyond 100 posts does make me tingle in all the right places.

      More importantly, I feel we might be meatloaf kindred spirits. I like that.

      And when you mention soaking bread in milk, I immediately leap to thinking of soaking it in buttermilk. Is this the milk you mean? If not, what do you think the result would be? I should also point out that I do experiment with making my own “bread crumbs” from a variety of sources (Triscuit makes a quality crumb especially if you’re trying to stay whole grain and you don’t need to let it stale). The processor works well for this.Report

    • ktward in reply to Mike Dwyer says:

      First off, how awesome is it that a meatloaf thread is now 98 comments deep?

      Awesome²: a meatloaf thread on a blog that is heavy on dudes. Impressive.Report

  13. joey jo jo says:

    ground turkey, zucchini, onion, seasoned bread crumbs, a little bit of ranch dressing mix and an egg. baste with ketchup/steaksauce/hint of sriracha mixture. Make sure the turkey is not extra lean and save some sauce for serving. free form the loaf and in the oven.Report

  14. Murali says:

    I felt really left out with this post (since not only have I never had meatloaf in the past, I’m not going to have any meatloaf in the future) So, if we are going to do recipe blogging, I’ve got an idea for a grilled cheese sandwich post. I want to test the waters a bit to see what the demand for such a post is. Do you think I should go ahead?Report

      • Jaybird in reply to Chris says:

        This is what I’m talking about when I talk about the world going to hell in a handbasket.Report

        • Kazzy in reply to Jaybird says:

          I didn’t want to say anything… but, yea, J-Bird nailed it. Even the libertarians among us can agree that such travesties should be outlawed, yes?

          Vegetarian food is at its best when it’s not trying to be non-vegetarian food. I’d rather eat a well-made ratatouille than vegetarian meatloaf.Report

          • Robert Greer in reply to Kazzy says:

            Generally I agree, but I’ve has too many amazing black bean burgers to make this an ironclad rule.Report

          • ktward in reply to Kazzy says:

            I dunno, Chris’s vegie meatloaf recipe looks like it might be tasty. Maybe it just needs to be called something other than [oxymoronically] vegie meatloaf so as not to immediately turn off lovers of meat.Report

            • Chris in reply to ktward says:

              “Veggie log” doesn’t sound any better.Report

              • ktward in reply to Chris says:

                Ick. Sure doesn’t. How about … Savory Vegie Patties. Off the top of my head.Report

              • Chris in reply to ktward says:

                That doesn’t sound anything like meatloaf! I suppose “veggieloaf” is the obvious choice, but I’m going to go with Tom’s suggestion on this one.

                Full disclosure: I’ve had, and enjoyed, vegetarian meatloaf. I was pretty much OK with it being called vegetarian meatloaf, even if that is an oxymoron, or perhaps something more like “The king of France is bald.”Report

              • ktward in reply to Chris says:

                I personally have no problem with calling it vegie meatloaf or vegie log or whatever– your link still looked like a tasty recipe to me. I was simply trying to help Jaybird and Kazzy out with their collective “Ewwws”. I was just thinking that perhaps if it’s not perceived as a “substitute” for the meat version, maybe it lives or dies on its own tasty (or un-) merits.Report

              • Kazzy in reply to ktward says:

                My point is that, if I wanted meatloaf, this likely would not satisfy me. But if you used those same ingredients for some awesome veggie dish, while not satisfying the meatloaf itch (which I believe is officially listed in the DSM IV), I’d probably enjoy it far more.Report

              • Jaybird in reply to Chris says:

                Call it “Ethical Food That Tastes Just As Good As Meat And I Also Don’t Own A Television”.Report

              • Kazzy in reply to Jaybird says:

                “Food to Vote Democratic To”Report

              • Tom Van Dyke in reply to Kazzy says:

                Now THAT’S funny.Report

              • Chris in reply to Jaybird says:

                Heh… There was a time when, if I were in a bar, say, and talking to someone I’d just met there, there were two things that person could say that would immediately cause me find an excuse to exit the conversation: “I don’t own a television” and using “derivative” as an adjective in a conversation about music.

                “I find Fleet Foxes music to be derivative. Oh, they make interesting music videos? I wouldn’t know, I don’t own a television.”Report

              • Kazzy in reply to Chris says:

                I considered a post on the bizareness of criticizing music as “derivative”, but I don’t really know much about music. I was set off by a friend bashing band X for being too derivative of bands Y and Z, two bands he really enjoyed. He seemed positively flummoxed when I said, “Well, if you like Y and you like Z and X is like those two, why is that inherently bad?” I can see how blatant and poor imitation would be weak. But simply being inspired and influenced by a band? Isn’t that basically what all music is? Bleh.

                That quote there would send most right-thinking people into a tizzy.Report

              • BlaiseP in reply to Kazzy says:

                “Most rock journalism is people who can’t write, interviewing people who can’t talk, for people who can’t read.” – Frank ZappaReport

              • Mike Schilling in reply to Jaybird says:

                You know who else was a vegetarian.Report

              • Patrick Cahalan in reply to Jaybird says:

                I used to sit next to a cranky-ass old British expat telecom engineer. Favorite exchange ever:

                “You don’t own a teevee?”

                “I have discovered I can’t own a television and guns at the same time.”

                A different spin on the television-denialists, that’s for sure.Report

        • Chris in reply to Jaybird says:

          There are things worse than vegetarian versions of non-vegetarian foods. All of those things involve turkey pretending to be non-turkey.Report

        • Tom Van Dyke in reply to Jaybird says:

          If I’d wanted mucilage, I’d’ve ordered mucilage.Report

    • Kazzy in reply to Murali says:


      A grilled cheese post would be well received by myself. And I’d venture to guess by others.

      Also, check out:

      Good recipes that I think are vegetarian (if not officially so, most dishes are) and amazing photographs. I go there for a lot of my veggie side dishes, so they have a lot of entrees as well. If you see a post above by BlaiseP about the tomato soup he just made, they had a similar recipe there. One of my favorite dishes (in part because I can make it fairly quickly) are zucchini fritters. Basically it’s like a latka (potato pancake) but it is made with zucchini, so a great way to get a good dose of veggies, especially if they are fresh and in season.

      But, yea, bring on the grilled cheese!Report

      • Patrick Cahalan in reply to Kazzy says:

        This comment made me think of this blog, which I used to read religiously back when I blogged at my old place and I haven’t been to it in forever. I don’t remember how I found it, but Wendy blogs about food and photos, and the food always sounds amazing and the photos are always awesome. She’s not a vegetarian, but she blogs vegetarian dishes fairly often (at least, she used to). I’m now looking at it again.Report

    • Patrick Cahalan in reply to Murali says:


      A friend of mine is involved with this.

      Show us whatcha got.Report

      • Plinko in reply to Patrick Cahalan says:

        When I was a kid, if you put stuff that wasn’t cheese in it, it was a melt.

        Now, a mac and cheese post, there’s an argument waiting to happen.Report

        • b-psycho in reply to Plinko says:

          Mac’n’cheese? I’m actually surprised that hasn’t been posted yet (that I know of).Report

          • Kazzy in reply to b-psycho says:

            I won’t go near mac&cheese. If we had it growing up, it came from a box. As I’ve grown, I’ve come to enjoy numerous varieties in all their glory. I’d love to kibbitz on a post, but dare not right one myself with so many talented chefs around, and a large portion of them with Souther roots or influences.Report

            • b-psycho in reply to Kazzy says:

              Understandable. It is at base a super simple comfort food after all. Hell, if it’s just for me I’m not purely anti-box, I save scratch and effort for relatives on that.

              My truly homemade take on mac’n’cheese makes its course less on complexity than on Shameless Overkill. Jumbo elbow noodles, plenty of real butter, heavy cream instead of milk (really), 5-6 different cheeses (I’ll get those “italian blend” bags plus co-jack or cheddar jack), and for additional flavor beyond the cream/butter/cheese combo I include with the requisite salt & pepper & paprika a hint of onion powder and a more-than-you-would-expect quantity of garlic. Half the cheese I use gets put with the cream and made into almost an alfredoesque sauce, which I put the noodles in, then layer in the pan with the rest of the cheese, making sure some is on top. No bread crumbs, that’s cheating.

              My brother dubbed it “crackaroni”.Report

              • Plinko in reply to b-psycho says:

                Yours sounds a lot like mine, b-psycho. Maybe I’ll submit a guest post on it and see where we can go, I think there’d be lots of room for argument on cheese selection, noodle type, as well as proper cheese sauce techniques. I’ll keep my secret ingredients to myself just in case I get around to writing it.

                Of course, I like to have a box every now and then, it’s not even the same thing to me as the home-made kind. There’s a reason our northern neighbors purchase ‘Kraft Dinner’ instead of ‘Kraft Macaroni & Cheese’.Report

              • Kazzy in reply to b-psycho says:

                As a general preference, I prefer bigger noodles, very cheese, and a hard-almost-burnt-and-actually-burnt-in-some-places crust. No breadcrumbs. I like some savoriness mixed in, though I don’t want any cheeses that are too sharp. I like sharp cheddars, just not in my mac. And if you want to throw some pork product in… well, by all means! But, yea, I don’t know how to cook the stuff. I just know how I like to eat it.Report

    • MikeSchilling in reply to Murali says:

      On the way to the ballpark last night, we passed a cafe whose menu is entirely grilled cheese. And gourmet ramen is becoming a thing. I’m expecting, any day, to find a pricey sweet shop that specializes in fancied-up twinkies, ding-dongs and snowballs.Report

  15. ktward says:

    I love to cook, but I’m pathologically compelled to tweak recipes. Even the old tried & trues. I admit, it’s a sickness. I’ve fielded no small amount of complaints about this quirk of mine, mostly from my kids who whined stuff like “just when you got the pot roast perfect, you go and change it!”

    So I’m totally game. I’ll try your meatloaf recipe, but I doubt I won’t tweak it in some way. Someone mentioned capers … what a fabulous idea! Plus, I’m not sure I can keep at least a plop or two of Worcestershire from making its way into the mash.

    I draw the line at ketchup, however. I’m a midwest gal, yes, but as far as I’m concerned ketchup belongs nowhere near hotdogs or meatloaf.

    p.s. OMG all the awesome links in this thread! A proverbial candy store.Report

    • Plinko in reply to ktward says:

      I don’t think I’ve ever made anything the exact same way twice.Report

      • ktward in reply to Plinko says:

        I knew there were others out there like me. I like the idea of a support group. Cooks Anonymous or something. We share recipe tweaks and related trauma stories.Report

        • Kazzy in reply to ktward says:

          I am only just learning how to effectively use a recipe. Zazzy says I treat the kitchen like an episode of “Chopped”. I can freelance halfway decently, but struggle to follow directions, in part because I stupidly think, “I know it says to do THIS, but I’ll do THAT instead and I bet it’s a billion times better.”

          I’m bad with directions. I’m a bad listener. And I don’t like being told what to do. Even by a recipe. Clearly I’m perfectly cut out to be a Pre-K teacher.Report

          • ktward in reply to Kazzy says:

            Heh. I hear you. I taught Pre-K myself for a few years.

            I too am bad with following directions in the kitchen. (Constructing IKEA furniture, otoh, I’m all about the directions. I count screws.) After, crikey, 30+ years of cooking, I’ve found my tweaking compulsion serves me just fine as a cook, nevermind what my kids said.

            But I do not bake.
            Good results in baking requires following a very precise recipe, and any substitution/addition involves some kind of rocket science that eludes me. The extent of my baking skills stops at quick breads and an oatmeal-raisin cookie recipe that I’ve trained myself to follow to the letter because, well, I love oatmeal raisin cookies.Report

            • Kazzy in reply to ktward says:

              I’ve learned to bake only because I bake with my students alot. But, yea, there is no freelancing. It is much more chemistry. It is not nearly as hard as I thought, especially if using a stand mixer, but I still need to follow the recipe and follow it well. I watch cooking shows where people will make a cake from scratch just based on what they know about formulas. HUH?!?!

              I tend to see cooking as a combination of art and science. There are specific forms and formulas, but also a lot of room for creativity. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. You might not make what you had originally set out to make by a strict definition of the thing, but if it’s tasty… who the F cares?

              To all these ends, the newest cookbooks I’ve acquired but not yet picked through are both by Michael Ruhlman: “Ratio” and “20”. They’re less “cook books” and more textbooks on cooking. From what I understand, you learn how ingredients interact and the basic ratios you need to make everything. Similar to how I find Alton Brown more useful than Rachel Ray, because the former gives me knowledge I can export elsewhere while the latter simply gives me a single recipe good for a single dish, I feel these might be the way to go for folks like us. Check ’em out. I may even get to read them one of these days!Report

              • ktward in reply to Kazzy says:

                For sure, I’ll check out those books/sites. I have a veritable library of cookbooks. Including my very tattered 30yo copy of Joy of Cooking which remains my primary go-to source for the fundamentals. I also have a full file cabinet drawer of nothing but online recipes I’ve printed out over the years. I collect recipes with much the same “I might want that one day!” fervor as folks who collect coins or comic books. Scouring recipe sites is, for me, just as dangerous as going to the grocery store hungry.

                For years I was glued to PBS’s Saturday cooking shows which were awesome for picking up technique. Especially America’s Test Kitchen and Lydia’s Italy. (Sigh. I miss PBS.) By the way, ATK is like Consumer Reports for anything kitchen related, from canned tuna to can openers.Report

              • ktward in reply to ktward says:

                It occurs to me that there is one recipe which I make every year and I’ve not ever felt compelled to tweak. It’s just that good.Report

              • Patrick Cahalan in reply to ktward says:

                I want to try that.Report

              • ktward in reply to Patrick Cahalan says:

                Heads up though: your fellow Thanksgiving feasters will insist henceforth that you make it every year. Plain ole cranberry sauce will never again satisfy.

                I play with the turkey every year: different brines, different herb combos, etc. But I’ve made this exact cranberry sauce for, I think, at least the better part of a decade. I’ve even had to make a double batch on occasion to ensure leftovers.

                For sure, make it a day or two ahead. Much like pasta dishes, it’s better after a day or so in the fridge. And one less thing to worry about on Turkey Day. (But bring it to room temp before serving. I just pull it out of the fridge early Thanksgiving morning and by the time we sit down to eat, it’s dandy.)Report

              • Kazzy in reply to Patrick Cahalan says:

                Dope. Thank you.

                By the way, I’m sure your name is meant to be read as either “Kate Ward” or “Katie Ward”, but I can’t stop reading it as Kay Tward”.Report

              • ktward in reply to Patrick Cahalan says:

                By the way, I’m sure your name is meant to be read as either “Kate Ward” or “Katie Ward”, but I can’t stop reading it as Kay Tward”

                That totally made me laugh.

                Kaz — may I call you Kaz? — you are welcome, in every possible sense of the word, to read my user name in any way you like.

                It’s a pseudonym that I created when I started blogging sometime in the mid 2000’s. More precisely, it’s an amalgamation of my maiden name that not a single person on earth, with the exception of family and close personal friends, would ever be able to use to either discern or track my real identity. (Sure, if some tech geek somewhere were interested enough to dig, I’d be found. But seriously, that caliber of tech geek has ever been the least of my worries.)

                What can I say. At that time, I was a single mother with young kids and a bad experience with a stalker under my belt. Today that’s ancient history, but I’ve since kept the pseudonym mostly as a matter of super-duper convenience.

                My name is Kelly. Feel free to call me Kelly. Or Kel, as my friends do. Then again, if you stick with Kay Tward I’ll take zero offense.*

                *Same goes for all the League folks.
                Call me anything but Late For Dinner. (I’m never late for dinner since I’m virtually always the cook. I can think of only one specific exception to this, which I’m going to now post to my TWSS fb page. Since you sorta brought it up, Kaz, I’m now thinking it’s more noteworthy than previously occurred to me.)Report

              • Kazzy in reply to Patrick Cahalan says:

                Kaz is fine. Mine is a nickname I picked up years back, one of many, many nicknames I’ve accrued. A group of my friends likely could figure out who I was and I wouldn’t care. I’m a teacher, so I’m really just trying to avoid parents who will somehow find ways to make problems out of anything (A teacher said “Fuck” on the internet? FIRE HIM!”)

                What is a TWSS fb page?

                I’ll probably keep calling you some variation of “ktward” if only to make it clear to everyone who I’m addressing and to avoid any sense of being “inner circle”.

                I’d venture to guess that “Kay-Tward” comes from sports nicknames like ARod and the nine-billion copycats since.Report

              • Chris in reply to Patrick Cahalan says:

                I read it as “K-tward” as well. Then again, I read greginak as gregin-ack, and Jaybird as “that fisher,” so…Report

              • Kazzy in reply to Patrick Cahalan says:

                I read “greginak” as “Greg-Knee-Ack”. Reading is hard.Report

              • Plinko in reply to Patrick Cahalan says:

                After all these years of gaming, I just start to think of people by their handles. Some people call me ‘Plinko’ in real life and I don’t even give it a thought, as a result, I rarely worry about deriving folks’ “real” names – your handle here is the persona with whom I interact and so that’s who are you are, as far as I’m concerned.

                That said, I read greginak just like Kazzy does, but I read “ktward” as “K.T. Ward”.

                You’d figure out what TWSS would be if you’d click some links, Kazzy!Report

              • I read it as “K.T. Ward”.Report

              • Kazzy in reply to Patrick Cahalan says:

                I’m glad I’m not the only one who gets a mild case of dyslexia when I read “Greginak”. Are we sure he didn’t use to spell it “Gregniak” and is now just fucking with us?Report

              • ktward in reply to Patrick Cahalan says:

                What is a TWSS fb page?

                Ah jeez. It’s an honest question on your part and one that I undoubtedly asked for, but it embarrasses me to explain it. Make no mistake, the shortcoming is on my end.

                The short answer:
                TWSS is my fb page that you can click on via my user name anytime I post here at LoOG.

                Paradoxically, the long answer bleeds the kind of drama I typically find little use for:
                Longtime and arguably successful marketing/advertising gal faces the challenging throws of menopause and empty-nesting and, talk about bad timing, feels compelled for various familial reasons to uproot herself from her deeply-rooted Chicago life and everything her kids ever knew. Consequently, she’s trying to build a life from scratch in Puerto Rico while caring for her aging folks. TWSS is an altogether imperfect glimpse into a choral attempt to re-imagine and re-invent her life.

                I’m her.Report

              • Kazzy in reply to Patrick Cahalan says:


                Sorta sounds like a new Fox sitcom. Are you Zooey Deschanel?Report

              • I wouldn’t have guessed the Puerto Rico part. 😉Report

              • Kazzy in reply to ktward says:

                I’ve heard generally good things about ATK. From what I understand, they’re much like Alton Brown/”Good Eats”. Speaking of: This has full transcripts and YouTube clips of all the shows, as well as links to all his recipes. Generally speaking, I don’t find any of his recipes beyond the very basic anything particularly special. But the depth of knowledge, the science (which piques my sciencey brain), and the universality of the techniques are great. My wife hates his shtick, which makes that website all the better.

                I have to check out ATK. I’m maxed out on gadgets right now, but am trying to learn more about better ingredients. Thanks!Report

              • Plinko in reply to Kazzy says:

                ATK’s show is good, less entertaining but more practical than Alton. I don’t really care for their cookbook, though.Report

              • Anne in reply to Kazzy says:

                ATK is fantastic I have also found a great cookbook called Radically Simple. Fairly quick recipes, minimal ingredients but everything I have tried so far Yummy!

                Also read as K Tward and Greg-Knee-AckReport

              • ktward in reply to Anne says:

                Where possible, I’ve tried to register myself as KtWard with the goal that folks might be more inclined to see me at K.T. or Katie. Neither is accurate, as I’ve purposefully designed, but I have to admit I never saw K Tward coming at me. I’m okay with it though!

                Point being, I’ve ever been okay with the fact that pseudonyms can take on an unforeseen shape. I mean, if I’m going to go to the trouble of inventing a pseudonym, it seems a bizarre notion to me to complain on whatever shape said pseudonym takes.

                Meanwhile, I’ve always ever read greginak as Greg In Alaska. (My recollection extends back to FrumForum’s pre-Beast days.) Even when he’s got occasional spell-check issues. (I think there was a recent post where I noticed him as “gregiank” or something similarly off.)Report

  16. Brandon Berg says:

    Adulterating meat with bread is heresy.Report

  17. damon says:

    Jesus, 200+ comments on meatloaf? Wow.

    I generally don’t make meatloaft, but a good receipe I’ve seen is mixing the ground meat with salsa. Yum. You opinion may vary. And no, no bacon for you pork hounds!Report

  18. Ellinoz says: Highly recommend this recipe – especially good if you brown well in a heavy based casserole on the stove then complete cooking in the oven. There’s generally enough sauce for the first round of eating – not much left for the slab of loaf you’ll have left for sandwiches. We make double so it’s a meatloaf beast! 🙂Report

  19. Miss Mary says:

    Holy cow, over 200 comments on a post about meatloaf! I’m not reading them all.

    You sure now how to make a vegetarian miss meat :(.Report