Gotham Delenda Est



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36 Responses

  1. Nob Akimoto Nob Akimoto says:

    As a secondary theme, is it just me or does The Dark Knight Rises feel like a movie that should have come after a movie after TDK. Like there should’ve been something between TDK and TDKR that could’ve wrapped up the loose ends left by Harvey Dent murdering all the crime lords, Bruce hanging up the cowl,etc. etc.Report

    • Avatar Jaybird says:

      The Joker sequel we never got.Report

      • Nob Akimoto Nob Akimoto says:

        Didn’t even need Joker.

        Just Black Mask showing up and taking over the underworld. False Face Society and maybe bring Selina Kyle into it early…would’ve been able to build that up quite well, even without Heath Ledger.Report

    • Avatar BenjaminJB says:

      Or if it had been split up into two movies, so that they had the time to work out the Dent fallout (the Dent Law, the cover-up, the fall of Batman) before Bane. But then again, who cares about that sort of process!Report

      • Avatar Jaybird says:

        You know, I think that the whole “a lot of stuff happened and here we are now and, for the record, everybody’s smiling in public and frowning once they’re out of sight of the cameras” is one of those things that is really, really easy to run with.

        I’ve had movies ask me to run along with crazier stuff.Report

        • Nob Akimoto Nob Akimoto says:

          Oh, there’s nothing wrong with it…just felt like a missed opportunity.

          Also…I hope the next Batman franchise DOESN’T start with the origin story. Everyone freaking knows it already.Report

      • Avatar Kolohe says:

        I was of the same opinion the first time I saw The Dark Knight; they really should have made two films. Plenty of films have been padded for better studio box office mojo, so it’s weird that it didn’t work out in this case.Report

  2. Avatar Burt Likko says:

    Hans Zimmer used the orchestra like a heavy blunt instrument. That’s not a bad thing, by the way. And I likes me that Anne Hathaway, yes I does!

    V pbhyq abg trg gur Serapu Eribyhgvba bhg bs zl zvaq nsgre Onar gbbx bire.

    Gur zbivr’f gehr greebe vf ynprq nyy guebhtu vg: jung unccraf jura bhe vafgvghgvbaf ner fvzcyl gbb jrnx gb unaqyr gur guerngf vg vf cbfrq ntnvafg? Gur “Qrag Npg” jvgu nyy vgf vzcyvrq pvivy yvoregvrf noevqtrzragf naq dhrfgvbanoyr pevzr-ceriragvat nppbzcyvfuzragf cebirq gb or hggreyl veeryrinag ntnvafg n qrgrezvarq naq punevfzngvp rarzl. Gur tbireazrag, sebz gur Cerfvqrag gb gur Znlbe gb gur cbyvpr (rkprcg sbe Wbfrcu Tbeqba-Yrivgg’f Ebova punenpgre) cebirq hggreyl varssrpghny. Ng rirel ghea, gur ohyjnexf bs pvivyvmngvba snvyrq.

    Fb vf gur ivtvynagr, gur fvathyne ureb, gur hfr bs ivbyrapr hafnapgvbarq ol ohg sbe gur orarsvg bs fbpvrgl, ernyyl gur nafjre gb gung?

    Bar ynfg dhrfgvba, haeryngrq gb gur ovt gurzrf bs gur zbivr. Fryvan Xlyr’f yvggyr oybaqr sevraq. Gurl frrzrq njshyyl… vagvzngr.Report

    • Avatar Jaybird says:

      Gur Serapu Eribyhgvba vf n terng pbzcnevfba. V ernq bar zbivr erivrj gung fnvq gur sbyybjvat: Ynqvrf, vs BJF rire qbrf eribyg, cyrnfr qb abg jrne lbhe shef.

      Nf sbe Fryvan’f yvggyr sevraq, gung’f fbzrbar jub fubjf hc va Ongzna: Lrne Bar nf Fryvan’f “jneq”, vs lbh jvyy. V trg gur vqrn gung vg’f n zveebe vzntr gb Ongzna’f riraghny eryngvbafuvc jvgu Qvpx Tenlfba (naq gur frk, vs nal, vf cheryl vapvqragny).Report

      • Avatar Michael Drew says:

        Um. Wow. Is this real? And no, I’m not actually sure what I’m asking with that question.Report

        • Avatar Jaybird says:

          Rot13 is a simple encryption or decryption. It stands for “rotate 13”. A becomes N, B becomes O, M becomes Z. This allows it to be switched back and forth without loss of fidelity. It’s pretty much perfect for discussing movie spoilers in a public forum while protecting people who don’t want to read them.

          Just copy and paste the comment into and press the “cypher” button. It’ll allow you to read the comment. Type your own and press the cypher button and you can post your own spoilers without fear of someone saying “I WAS PLANNING ON SEEING THAT TOMORROW!” even though you were talking about Blade Runner which came out before Jesus was even born and if you haven’t seen it by now then you should seriously consider your managed ignorance of Blade Runner to be *YOUR* responsibility rather than *MY* responsibility. Jeez.

          Where was I? Anyway, yes. Rot13.

          That is what you were asking about, right?Report

          • Avatar Michael Drew says:

            Ah, okay. I had no idea what that referred to in the post, or more precisely, I didn’t even see it as my eyes skipped over it as I skimmed since I’d seen the movie and wasn’t planning on making an original comment of my own that included any specifics. So, as is often the case, I simply had absolutely no idea what was going on once I got a little ways down in the comments. So it just seemed like Burt had simply without warning slipped into Klingon as he went along, which I wouldn’t assume is something he’s not entirely capable of.Report

      • Nob Akimoto Nob Akimoto says:

        Holly Robinson is also the character who takes up the “mantle” of Catwoman when Selina Kyle hangs up the mask after having a kid…(She’s also by the by, one of the first openly gay characters in DC’s lineup)Report

    • Avatar James K says:

      V pbhyq abg trg gur Serapu Eribyhgvba bhg bs zl zvaq nsgre Onar gbbx bire.

      I had the exact same thought.Report

      • Avatar Jason M. says:

        Frankly, I found all the “Serapu Eribyhgvba” scenes pierced through my normally generous suspension of belief. The drek coming out of Bane’s megaphone is only powerful in a conservative fever-dream like “Red Dawn”.Report

        • Avatar Jaybird says:

          I’m under the impression that it was the convicts that were a lot more interested in the redistribution than the average Gothamite who, I’ll have you know, would have been happy to keep on keeping on even without Police on every corner.Report

          • Avatar Pyre says:

            I didn’t get that impression from the movie or, at least, the scenes where it was “redistributed”. I’m reminded of the story that was posted earlier on the League where the ants tear down the corrupt Queen and the Grasshopper.

            I think the average Gothamite went along with it. After that, much like Selina was “This is what you wanted, right?”, everyone realized that noone had thought of what happens afterward.Report

        • Avatar James K says:

          And yet in the Serapu Eribyhgvba stuff like that actually happened.Report

  3. Avatar North says:

    Personally I enjoyed the third but felt it paled in comparison to the second. This might be because Joker’s evil was much more primal than that of Ras or Bane. I definitly think that in ascending levels of evil the movies go 1,3,2 in order of intensity. To be frank up until the reveal of Talia I was working up a good amount of dislike for the film but that then transmuted to enjoyment.Report

    • Avatar Jaybird says:

      I left the second absolutely entranced but wondering how in the heck Joker managed to do half of the things he did. The bombs in the hospital, for example. How did he get all of those there? I mean, don’t get me wrong, The Joker was absolutely hypnotic and I would have been willing to run with him being able to pull off all kinds of stuff… but I still would have asked about it as I walked out to the car.

      In this one, I found myself wondering “how can the bad guys be able to guess EVERY SINGLE MOVE they make???” until that reveal… at which point it was obvious. That’s how they tagged the wrong truck. That’s how the soldiers knew about the police escape. That’s how they were on top of absolutely everything. They had someone on the inside.

      The bad guy in 2 was perfect… but the plot in 3 was tighter.Report

      • Avatar North says:

        Yes, I agree. The only justification for the perfection of the bad guy in 2 was that he was a mirror of the good guy. Batman is perfect/near perfect from meticulous planning. Joker in contrast is perfect/near perfect from pure chaotic insights.Report

      • Avatar Ethan Gach says:

        Agreed. And watching it a second time really pulls the movie together. Nolan covers all of his bases, but doesn’t waste time hitting you over the head with the fact that he did.Report

    • Avatar Chris says:

      I guessed that she was in on it pretty early on, which made the movie significantly less interesting to me.

      Also, I liked the first one best. It was just a tighter movie than the other two. The joker was cool and all, and there was some interesting stuff in the 3rd (I really didn’t like it, though), but the first was first Indiana Jones tight.Report

  4. Avatar Pyre says:

    My impressions from G+:


    Missed the first five-ten minutes of DKR (Thanks, Fandango.) but I imagine that I didn’t miss too much.

    I can see where people would not like the Dark Knight Rises, especially as opposed to the Avengers. Social messages aside, Bane is, in all honesty, a low-key villain. That is how he broke the Bat in the first place. Unlike most of Batman’s villains, Bane is very smart and, while capable of standing up to Batman physically, he used strategy and intellect to make sure that he was fighting Batman on his terms. A Batman movie with Bane that was as spectacle-driven as Avengers was would have been awful. In many ways, comparing the two is an apples/oranges comparison. Yes, they’re both superhero movies but that’s the extent of the comparison.

    This, incidently, allows the movie to make a more social statement. While they did some of that with the second movie, Heath Ledger’s performance as well as the direction of the movie overshadowed any messages that really were made. Heath Ledger’s Joker could not have been the villain for Dark Knight Rises any more than Tom Hardy’s Bane could have worked for The Dark Knight.

    And, as for the twist….Well, comic knowledge aside, I knew there was more going on with a character than I was piecing together but the actual twist was both reflective of what happened in Batman Begins but still unforeseen.

    As for the end of the movie, I’m sure that everyone knows that this is Nolan’s last film for Batman and Christian Bale also isn’t planning on donning the cowl again, having already nixed any rumors floating around him and the Justice League movie. Could a Robin movie work?

    Ages ago, when the still hosted films, Grayson was made based as a continuation from the Adam West days.

    It could work but we’ll never really know.

    TL;DR version: Yeah, they aced it.


    Yeah, I could expand on my G+ post but I think it says everything that it needs to.Report

  5. Avatar Ryan Noonan says:

    I just have to say, I thought Tom Hardy’s Bane voice was AMAZING.Report

    • Avatar Chris says:

      The first time I heard the voice, I laughed. It was not supposed to be a funny moment. It’s always a bit awkward to be the only person laughing in a crowded theater.Report

      • Avatar Jaybird says:

        I was vaguely reminded of a bad Sean Connery impersonation… “Shpeak of the Devil and he shhall appear.”

        I giggled to myself and got back into the story.Report

        • Avatar Chris says:

          Strangely, it didn’t bother me every time he spoke. However, it did bother me/amuse me several times throughout the film.

          My question, why does he have to wear an amplifier to avoid feeling pain?Report

    • Avatar North says:

      I kindof felt Latin America was robbed by this Bane interpretation but the voice did work for me.Report

    • Avatar Ryan Noonan says:

      Also, you’re supposed to read my comment the exact same way Bane would have said it, with the last word going up an octave.Report

  6. Avatar Ryan Davidson says:

    I dunno. I wonder if these sorts of movies might not be doing our conversation a disservice. In a sense, this is riffing off the same urge which makes conspiracy theories compelling: “Really, the one comforting side in most conspiracy theory arguments is the one claiming that anyone who’s in power has any plan at all.” The problem with society isn’t villainy, it’s vice.Report

  7. Avatar Kazzy says:

    Finally saw it. Generally loved it.


    …was anyone else appalled by the “wrapped up with a neat bow” ending? The balls it would have taken to kill Batman would have meant something. At least have it open-ended! Alfred looks over, smiles, and screen goes black. Do we need to see Bruce and Catwoman sipping wine in Italy? Just felt so forced and lame. And the idea of Wayne truly sacrificing himself, even if he did fix the autopilot (I would have left that in to show he made a deliberate choice to sacrifice himself), is awesome. It shows he sees himself as part of the problem, or at least as a symbol that has run its course. Thoughts!?!?!?Report