Game of Thrones Bookclub: It’s not like the songs



Daniel is a journalist.

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15 Responses

  1. Avatar Mike Schilling says:

    Cersei’s being unfaithful to Robert is treason — both she and Jaime could be executed for it. And the obvious conclusion about the children, who look like pure Lannisters rather than Baratheons, would lead at least to their being disinherited, perhaps something worse. Jaime has so much to lose that he has little choice but to do something drastic.Report

    • Avatar Daniel says:

      Right, I agree. Jamie did have to do something drastic (which is what happened) but he didn’t do something smart, he left a small opportunity for someone to figure what was actually happening.Report

  2. Avatar Murali says:

    ***Spoiler Alert***

    In later books we find out that Jaime is a lot more committed to the relationship than Cersei, who cheats on him with Lancel, the Kettelblacks and God knows who else and further discards him the moment he loses his sword hand.Report

    • Avatar The Fool says:


      I really want her to have actually done Moon Boy. Also the Lancel thing was very much a replacement for Jamie, although definitely not the others. Plus she was in love with Rhaegar (though who wasn’t) and Robert (before the wedding)Report

  3. Avatar Ryan B says:

    The fact that Cersei and Jaime are twins does, I think, further reduce their affair. It’s not merely more lustful than romantic; it’s also (arguably) more narcissistic than lustful.Report

    • Avatar Daniel says:

      Right. Their appearance is very similar to each other as well as their personalities (as far as we can tell right now). It’s pretty clear that this isn’t love, it’s lust.Report

      • Avatar Ryan B says:

        Right, but my point is that it’s (arguably, as I said) not lust for each other.Report

        • Avatar Daniel says:

          It’s not merely more lustful than romantic; it’s also (arguably) more narcissistic than lustful.

          I took that to mean lust is involved (which I think is true) but narcissism is the overriding aphrodisiac which I would agree with.

          But I can’t get on board with the idea that it’s solely narcissism. If it was they’d just be a pair of Lannisters who are unusually supportive and protective of each other.Report

  4. Avatar Ryan says:


    I guess I’d contest the idea that without Bran falling, the books don’t happen.

    Robert was going to name Ned as the hand in any case, and Ned was already suspicious about Jon Arryn’s death. That investigation led to his discovery that “Robert’s” children were actually Jamie’s, and that knowledge alone, independent of anything else, would have led him to contest Joff’s right to succeed.

    Also, I don’t see any inherent connection between Bran’s fall and Robert’s decision to go hunting. He was probably going to do that anyway. Which meant he was probably going to get killed, which is the incident which triggers the crisis.

    Also, Bran’s fall does not seem to have any impact on Robert’s decision to send assassins after Daenerys, which is the only event on Westeros to have affected her.

    Granted, if Bran doesn’t see Jamie and Cersei, Catelyn doesn’t arrest Tyrion, sparking the Lannisters’ invasion of the East. But it seems to me that that would merely have delayed the war, not prevented it. Ned would still have contested Joff’s parentage, Cersei would still have executed him, and banners would still have been called. It just would have taken a few extra months.

    So I really don’t think that Bran’s fall is quite the essential event that you make it out to be.Report

    • Avatar Ryan B says:

      Cersei doesn’t execute Ned. She is willing to allow him to take the Black, but Joffrey decides to kill him.

      Other than that, I think this is mostly right, although I’m not sure it’s obvious that Ned would have failed so spectacularly without the chain of events that goes Bran’s fall > Tyrion’s capture > Jaime’s wrath > Ned’s injury/opium consumption.Report

    • Avatar North says:

      Perhaps, but without Tyrions arrest which was entirely caused by Bran’s fall the Lannisters wouldn’t have been as hostile and prepared for war/wheeling and dealing as they were which means Ned might have actually pulled off his little coup attempt in King’s Landing.

      Maybe… though one thing that the show really drove home to me was just how stupid Ned was in his dogged pursuit of the good. He was honorable and lawful up to a point but when everything came to a head at Robert’s deathbed Ned decided to commit treason in order to allow his best friend to die without burden. Shortly after that Ned would pay for that mistake with his life.Report

    • Avatar Daniel says:

      Two things: First, lets keep the spoilers to a minimum please! Second, fair enough but Bran’s fall does direct how many things play out. I didn’t mean to say that things wouldn’t have happened the way they did at all, just that they would have happened differently.Report

  5. Avatar Trumwill says:

    I’ve been working my way through the (audio)book on one hand, and watching the show on the other. It’s worked out well because I will catch things on the show that I glossed over. The show was particularly helpful in bringing the Lannisters into focus, specifically Jaime and Cercei.

    From the books, I had imagined them stronger and more formidable in appearance. The book did a good job of making them look like the products of a family tree with perhaps a few too many loops in them. Attractive, yet with a little gauntness about them. It made the hole in their souls more visible. And it made more apparent Ryan B’s part about narcissism.Report

  6. Avatar E.D. Kain says:

    What would people say to spoiler threads off site? We could start a doppleganger site for any spoiler discussion…Report