Steve Drain, Ex-Libertarian


Jon Rowe

Jon Rowe is a full Professor of Business at Mercer County Community College, where he teaches business, law, and legal issues relating to politics. Of course, his views do not necessarily represent those of his employer.

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16 Responses

  1. Avatar Rufus F. says:

    Jaybird once wondered if people living outside of the US get enough information to distinguish between the nuances of religious belief stateside. My first thought was about how many news pieces I saw about this church when I was in Yurp. I probably saw more news reports than there are members of the actual church. I suspect that, if you lived in France, you might think they were the norm in the US.Report

    • Avatar Jaybird says:

      A dear friend married a woman from Russia and we discussed her experience of the US so far last year at dinner.

      She explained that the US is absolutely crazy when it comes to religion. Everybody talks about it all the time. Even the atheists. ESPECIALLY THE ATHEISTS. In Russia, she explained, everybody is Russian Orthodox. Nobody needs to talk about it.

      The upsides of monoculture.Report

      • Avatar Rufus F. says:

        Well, my sense is that the US looks more like a monoculture from abroad than it does stateside. But, of course, that could well be because plenty of other places do have religious uniformity. I’d assume my friend Magda, who came over from Poland a few years ago, would have some thoughts on the strangeness of religious pluralism.

        The media also probably doesn’t help people across the pond get a good picture of American religion- for some reason, your average, mainstream Episcopalian doesn’t make for interesting viewing like the God Hates Fags people. Of course, it’s the same way in the American media- I think outlets like CNN like covering the funeral clowns because then their reporters can shake their heads disapprovingly and show that they don’t approve of such things.

        Admittedly, my sister and her husband have lived and work in a Muslim country for about five years now and I’ve asked them before, “So, do you see lots of those screaming fanatics who hate America?” Her response was, “Once or twice we’ve encoutered someone scary, but most people just like to walk around the market and hang out on the beach”.Report

  2. Avatar Will H. says:

    I guess these the people out to outlaw gay shacking that I was talking about.Report

    • Avatar Rufus F. says:

      Yeah, it sounds like they’re out to outlaw “gay” and never mind the shacking.Report

      • Avatar Will H. says:

        Maybe we could point out that cohabitation could lead to disagreements where one partner refuses to have sex with the other.
        But that sort of neglects that gay people are still gay even when they’re not getting it on.
        No need to tell them that though.
        Unfortunately, Kain is not gay, at least not gay enough to take us on a rollercoaster ride on the Meaning of True Gayness. Were that the case, we could have an acronym of several polysyllables to use rather then LGBT (or whatever order they’re supposed to be in) that would cover all the different shades and variations of True Gayness.Report

        • Avatar Mike Schilling says:

          Nothing in the world would decrease gay sex as much as gay marriage.Report

          • Avatar Will H. says:

            Surprises me that we can still use the term ‘libertarian’ without qualification anymore.
            I suppose ‘ex-libertarian’ is enough of a qualification.

            But seriously, my older brother was a libertarian, and something of an extremist.
            Much of my preconceptions of libertarianism come from him.
            It’s good to see a place where libertarianism is taken seriously.
            It really is a vibrant community, full of variation.
            It’s not just about individualists that are so individualistic they can’t work with others.
            And that’s good to know.Report

            • Avatar Rufus F. says:

              I really like the libertarians here too and have learned a lot from them. Heck, I’d even say that some of my best friends are libertarians and, if I had a daughter, I’d let her marry a libertarian. That said, I’m not a libertarian. It’s hard for me to convey that in posts about dead Greeks however. I think a few of the others here are not libertarians, but it seems to be the ones who don’t post as often. I don’t know if there’s some connection there between libertarianism and being good about posting regularly.Report

              • Avatar Jason Kuznicki says:

                I’ve struggled to put together a good answer to your theoretical questions of a few weeks ago, regarding libertarians, rights, and the state. Aside from asking you to read the current issue of Cato Unbound — which has a lot to do with it — I’m going to have to ask for some more patience on your part. The whole thing keeps threatening to turn into a book, and that can’t be allowed.Report

              • Avatar Rufus F. says:

                Oh there’s no hurry. I will look at the issue of Cato Unbound and, you know, if it does turn into a book, there’s a place online where you can publish them for $2-3 a copy and it would be sort of cool to offer a book from the League of Ordinary Gentlemen Publishers.Report

              • Avatar Will H. says:

                Come to think of it, I believe that “ex-libertarianism” is one of those branches of libertarianism that Kain has yet to dissect.
                Should be interesting.Report

    • Avatar North says:

      They’re the ones who are up front about it at least.Report

      • Avatar Rufus F. says:

        I’m sort of on the fence about whether they’re good propaganda for the other side or not. On the one hand, if I was anti gay (fill-in-the-specific-activity), I could say, “Well, at least I’m not as extreme as these people. We all disagree with them!” But, if I was pro gay (fill-in-the-specific-activity) I could point to them and say, “That’s who you’re agreeing with! They’re just more upfront about it!” So, both responses seem like they make sense.Report