plea for the green


Freddie deBoer used to blog at, and may again someday. Now he blogs here.

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32 Responses

  1. Bob Cheeks says:

    I have no idea what the Muslim must do to explain to you that they have no desire to share the planet with the infidel. Kissing their ass is a useless, demeaning, act of humiliation.Report

  2. matoko_chan says:

    Lol Freddie, you forgot Operation Ajax where American CIA operatives colluded in the assassination of a freely elected Iranian president.
    I think Obama is actually, bright enough to stay the fuck out.
    Bob Cheeks…..I am a practicing Sufi.
    In’shallah you will never have to kiss my ass.
    The students that fuel the Green Revolution are unanimously devout– green is the color of al-Islam.Report

  3. matoko_chan says:

    And…..half the country is under thirty.

  4. Mark says:

    Don’t worry: this time, the bodybuilders are all paid members of the secret police and will be too expensive for the CIA to corrupt. Lessons of ’53 well-learned.Report

  5. matoko_chan says:

    Ajax was only a small part of our much broader meddling with reinstalling the Shah against the will of the Iranian people.
    I just thought Freddie should mention it by name, because of the infamy.Report

  6. Bob Cheeks says:

    ‘Bob Cheeks…..I am a practicing Sufi.
    In’shallah you will never have to kiss my ass.’

    Thank you sweetie, I appreciate that!Report

  7. richard says:

    freddie go read friedman’s column in todays times.Report

    • Bob in reply to richard says:

      richard, are you referring to the “Winds of Change?” piece of drivel dated 6/13/09?

      Friedmam is a charlatan of the first order. Anyone who still has any faith in his output has a either a very short memory, or a short history with Tommy. The man has zero credibility. He backed the invasion of Iraq way back when and has been trying, unsuccessfully, to retrieve his withered balls from that pier. He’ll say anything to rescue his nonexistent reputation. You might as well site David Broder. Broder, Friedman, hacks.

      So now Friedman sees a new day for the Middle East? I might have believed it if he would have published this six months ago, hell six weeks ago. The fool, Friedman, condemned himself with his own words, read them and weep, “Twenty years ago, I wrote a book about the Middle East, and recently I was thinking of updating it with a new introduction. It was going to be very simple — just one page, indeed just one line: ‘Nothing has changed.’”

      I’ll tell you how “nothing has changed,” Tom Friedman still has no fucking clue.Report

  8. matoko_chan says:

    Freddie…..what about this?Report

  9. mike farmer says:

    We should be ashamed if we don’t speak to freedom in Iran — loudly and clearly. To take the measured, political approach is cowardly. I’m not saying we should intervene, but we should not be afraid to promote freedom from tyranny.Report

  10. Freddie says:

    But if we actively voice support for those revolting, Mike, it plays directly into the hands of the status quo. We need to support democracy, and in the specific situation of Iran that means not undercutting the cause of democracy with our massive unpopularity there.Report

    • E.D. Kain in reply to Freddie says:

      I don’t know, Freddie. Actually the American people rate fairly high amongst the Iranian people. I think they’re counting on vocal support – but not military support or wild, unproductive statements about axis of evil etc.Report

  11. matoko_chan says:

    Mr. Obama has the opportunity to lend the protestors the considerable weight of U.S. moral support, just as he has the opportunity to show the regime there are consequences for stealing elections. One such consequence would be for the President to remove his opposition to various bills in Congress, sponsored by Independent Democrat Joe Lieberman and others, that sanction companies that sell gasoline to Iran. An estimated 40% of Iran’s domestic gasoline consumption comes from foreign sources.

    This is stupid. Could Lieberman be anymore moronic?
    Sanctions hurt the population and empower Nejad’s anti-US meme-war.
    Obama opened a door for dar al-Islam… is our duty to observe and not to look away and let the Iranians reform their own country.
    It is our duty NOT TO MEDDLE this time.Report

  12. matoko_chan says:

    Freddie…..I think the right doesn’t understand the students they are expressing extreme solidarity with ARE ACTUAL DEVOUT MUSLIMS! Haha, some of them go to maddrassa even, and the uni students are uniformly shi’ia.
    This is going to make all their heads explode when they realize it.

  13. mike farmer says:

    You misunderstand me, as does matoka with a patronizing assumption of the “right”‘s naivete — what I am saying is that when we make statements, we support freedom in general, however that may manifest itself in any particular country — there are no “sides” we should take, only a full-throated embrace of freedom vs tyranny and irrational beliefs.Report

  14. Jaybird says:

    “Man, when matoko_chan realizes that the “democratists” she’s defending don’t, in fact, believe in a woman’s right to control her own sexual destiny, her head is going to explode.”Report

  15. matoko says:

    Jaybird, conservatives don’t believe I should control my own sexual destiny……..what is the difference?
    And now, I understand the right’s naivete purrfectly.
    You twodigit tools believed in the Bush Doctrine, aka the Epic Fail of the Manifest Destiny of Judeoxian Democracy in MENA.Report

  16. Jaybird says:

    Are there any words in the English language sweeter to the tongue or more musical to the ear than “You People”?Report

  17. matoko_chan says:

    I like, You twodigit tools myself.

    • Jaybird in reply to matoko_chan says:

      I, personally, prefer it when my opponents do not merely disagree, but are actively wrong. More than that, I prefer that they hold their viewpoints despite knowing that there is something wrong, but when they have made the moral decision to rely on lies and/or data that they know is incomplete because it fits with the view they want to impose on the weak.

      It’s much easier than arguing against people who merely have reached different conclusions after looking at the data themselves. That, you see, takes work and, occasionally, requires that one re-evaluate one’s own position.Report

  18. matoko_chan says:

    I prefer, ekshually, to argue with people on the same side of the bellcurve of IQ with me as it is pointless to attempt to persuade someone without the basic intellectual substrate.
    Man cannot acquire what he cannot use.Report

  19. I prefer salami on rye with just a toooooooooouch of dijon mustard and some provolone, or I did when I was able to eat sandwiches. But that’s just me.

    Wasn’t the relevant topic here what posture the US ought to strike in regards to the current ongoings in Iran?

    I think that there is a relevant distinction that I haven’t yet heard made between the US government and the US people. When it comes to what the US government should do, I’d be inclined to agree with Freddie. But when it comes to what citizens of the US should do, I’d be inclined to agree with Mike Farmer.

    We tend to speak about reactions to various geopolitical events in very monolithic terms, which I can’t help seeing as unhelpful. After all, we are talking about democracy, here.Report

    • Jaybird in reply to Scott H. Payne says:

      The US government should be very, very gentle. For some reason, the US does not have a good reputation over there and anything the government attempts over there will be seen as either Israel pulling our strings, us deliberately trying to help keep the extremists in power so as to keep the Neocons in power because if Iran becomes a democracy, they become useless, or some other “this is what they say, but they don’t really *MEAN* it!” situation.

      As citizens, however, I think that we could do good without doing harm by sending whatever moral support we possibly could. A “tweet” here, a post there, a comment there. We wish them all the best and they have our moral support.

      But when it comes to Iran itself, this is something that the Persian people *MUST* do themselves (or overwhelmingly so) lest it turn into yet another mess that the Americans created over there.

      I suspect that the Persians are strong enough to do this themselves. They deserve to have done this themselves.Report

  20. Bob Cheeks says:

    Of course, America stay outta the Middle East. I’m sure The Great Provider will withdraw troops shortly. Let the Ayrabs kill each other and old Ben’s gotta do what Ben’s gotta do….
    “The eastern world it is explodin’
    violence flarin’, bullets loadin’
    In the end all ‘you people’ will have your ‘come to Jesus’ moment!Report

  21. matoko says:

    My empathy has been exhausted by stupidity and partisanship.

    Even the greatest love empathy in the world can wear out, Scarlett.Report